I’ve been taking an interest in game throughout history. I believe I first read the Arthurian legends, the Knights of the Round Table when I was in the third grade. The Tale of Sir Gawain and the Lady Ragnell was probably the first encounter I had with “game.” King Arthur is caught unarmed and made “an offer he cannot refuse” by a local thug. He has to answer a riddle “What do women want most?” Arthur can’t figure it out but he meets an ugly old crone in the woods and she offers to tell him the answer, but in exchange, Sir Gawain (Arthur’s nephew) will have to marry her. Pretty good negotiation for an old hag. Sir Gawain eventually finds out about this and (to save the king) he agrees to marry the old girl in exchange for the knowledge that “women want to have their own way” or said in a single word: sovereignty.
So Arthur is saved, and Gawain now has an ugly wife. Anyway, it turns out that on his wedding night, it is revealed she is affected by some curse and she’s actually a hot princess, but only half the time. He will have to choose if she is hot in public and ugly in the bedroom, or alternatively she can be ugly in public, and super hot at home. According to Franco in “Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man” this type of shit test is a double blind. The classic example of “Do I look fat in this dress?” Option A and Option B both kind of suck. Instead of choosing A or B, he uses both the knowledge that she has given him (all women are solipsistic and want their own way) and a strong frame to choose option C “You are the one who must bear this burden my dear, it is you who must choose.” She exclaims “oh you have broken the curse, since you gave me my own way, the spell is broken and I can be hot for you all the time.”
It’s a nice fairy tale, but as with most legends that survived through time (also religious texts), there are levels to it. While it can look like Sir Gawain is being rewarded for simping, he’s actually passing a major shit test and holding a strong frame.
Unfortunately, the incorrect “simping is rewarded” lesson is what a lot of people take away from the story. Younger men might misinterpret it as Sir Gawain being rewarded for being a nice boy who sub-communicates “I want to please you mother.” The kind of married men or relation-whipped men who say “she’s the boss” or “let me ask my better half” and think they are being noble like knights and will be rewarded for it. WEAK. Is this where white knights come from?
White knights incorrectly aping the example of Sir Gawain are often miffed that they are not rewarded for simping. All these rules of giving women what they want, giving them flowers and chocolates were for courtly love among nobles (where marriages were arranged) and these things were for signaling TO HER PARENTS that the man would take good care of her. Like small gifts in a business transaction to show good will toward an eventual business deal.
In game terms, it was a shit test. Her curse was a shit test and he broke the curse by holding frame. Her curse was presented within the frame that there were only two options of how she could be for him, and he had to choose one. He refused to accept the frame of her curse and instead gave her a third option (which was cleverly hidden in plain sight as the answer to the riddle). In the true style of a patriarch, he gave her the guidance she needed and delegated the decision back to her. She was delighted that he passed the shit test and broke the curse, and supposedly became his hot willing princess wife, which, if he keeps a strong frame, that’s not unlikely.
The Hans Comyn level 3 (how do I make her shine) moral of the story: Don’t be distracted by her beauty. Even the most beautiful girls think or feel that they are ugly sometimes. Giving her some guidance and direction while holding a strong frame guides her to be the beautiful princess all the time.
A lower vibration takeaway is jumping on a grenade. He’s a knight who got roped into this marriage to save his king’s life. Dispassionately taking one for the team. It could have gone something like this: “Look here Lady Rags, I’ve got a duty to the king and a kingdom to save, so when you’re ugly and when you’re hot is a burden you have to bear, so you need to deal with it and make a decision. Hurry up. Let’s go.”
Finally, the most detached takeaway is that the thug who threatened King Arthur actually had his lands taken from him by Sir Gawain, so by having his ugly cursed sister marry Sir Gawain in what is essentially a shotgun wedding, they reacquire their family lands back by marriage. Life in court must have been complicated. The whole thing was actually an arranged marriage shotgun wedding business deal.
I think this will be the story I use to introduce game to any male heirs I produce.
The thing I’m left wondering: was Lady Ragnell a yes girl? The Lady of the Lake sure was.
I just finished reading “Life in a Medieval City” by Joseph and Frances Gies.
It is about the city of Troyes in France, not too far from Paris, that was famous for its seasonal fairs. Really enjoyable book and it is shocking how little has changed in the last 800 years.
I couldn’t help but read it with a red-pill tinted lense, and I had to share a number of quotes, common knowledge for at least 800 years.
Read more history. I find it comforting to discover that things that are broken today have been broken for millennia, and it helps me tune out the noise and focus on what is really important.
Here we go, interesting quotes from the book, followed by my snarky comments:
The feminine ideal is a slender figure, blond hair, and fair skin—“white as snow on ice,” says a poet.
Women work outside the home at an astonishing variety of crafts and professions. They may be teachers, midwives, laundresses, lacemakers, seamstresses, and even members of normally male trades and occupations—weavers, fullers, barbers, carpenters, saddlers, tilers, and many others. Wives commonly work at their husbands’ crafts, and when a man dies his widow carries on the trade. Daughters not infrequently learn their father’s craft along with their brothers. In the countryside girls hire out as farm workers. The lady of the manor takes charge of the estate while her husband is off to war, Crusade, or pilgrimage, and wives run businesses while their husbands are away.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE
The modern housewife trope of the 1950’s was not normal. Women were actually kind of an asset to a business – life was hard and they had to be. Marriage sounds like you at least get some free labor out of the deal.
A craftsman had status and was leading his family in the business. A patriarch. That sounds pretty good.
Interesting that daughters often also learned the craft of their fathers.
Among the landed gentry, women are better educated than men. In the romance Galeran a boy and girl brought up together are given typically different schooling—the girl learning to embroider, read, write, speak Latin, play the harp, and sing; the boy, to hawk, hunt, shoot, ride, and play chess.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE
Boys and girls have different interests and different strengths. Educating women in languages and music is a good thing. Educating women in STEM or MMA is kind of silly.
Wife-beating is common in an age when corporal punishment is the norm. But wives do not necessarily get the worst of it. A contemporary observer remarks that men rarely have the mastery of their wives, that nearly everywhere women dominate their husbands.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE
Sounds like an Eastern European stereotype…
Interesting to consider that henpecked beta provider husbands controlled by their wives was the norm. Been like that for at least 800 years.
Women are criticized for the way they look at people, like a sparrowhawk ready to pounce on a swallow. Take care: glances are messengers of love; men are prompt to deceive themselves by them.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (CITING RULES OF CONDUCT FOR WOMEN FROM POET ROBERT BLOIS)
This is where the title of this post comes from. 800 year old daygame wisdom:
Women, be careful to whom you give IOIs, men will misinterpret them
Men: IOIs from women don’t mean much
If a man courts a lady, she must not boast of it. It is base to boast, and besides, if she takes a fancy later to love this person, the secret will be more difficult to keep.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (CITING RULES OF CONDUCT FOR WOMEN FROM POET ROBERT BLOIS)
A gentleman doesn’t kiss and tell. Girls should also keep their mouths shut. But when women enter into validation and status competitions with one another, as they do, she is shamed when she is scorned, dumped, left, etc. Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d, Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn‘d. But in this case, she kind of brought it upon herself.
A lady shuns the fashionable décolletage, a sign of shamelessness.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (CITING RULES OF CONDUCT FOR WOMEN FROM POET ROBERT BLOIS)
I have no idea what a décolletage is, but it sounds slutty, french and I would probably like it. I looked it up and it is a low neckline. So a lady doesn’t show off her cleavage.
A lady does not accept gifts. For gifts which are given you in secret cost dear; one buys them with one’s honor. There are, however, honest gifts which it is proper to thank people for.
How did she afford to travel to all these places on her Instagram? Whether or not it is true, one can’t help but wonder at her honor.
Above all, a lady does not scold. Anger and high words are enough to distinguish a low woman from a lady. The man who injures you shames himself and not you; if it is a woman who scolds you, you will break her heart by refusing to answer her.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (CITING RULES OF CONDUCT FOR WOMEN FROM POET ROBERT BLOIS)
It will break her heart by refusing to answer her. Women should ignore other women scolding them. Frame is powerful. As men, more women need to be ignored. It is hard to ignore some women who deserve it, especially when they are hot.
Cut your fingernails frequently, down to the quick, for cleanliness’ sake. Cleanliness is better than beauty.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (CITING RULES OF CONDUCT FOR WOMEN FROM POET ROBERT BLOIS)
Rivelino is going to love this. Keeping clean was probably more difficult 800 years ago. Perfume was invented to mask odors. This was before the black plague in 1350.
Women must not swear, drink too much or eat too much.
One must know how to eat—not to talk or laugh too much at table, not to pick out the best pieces, not to eat too much as a guest, not to criticize the food, to wipe one’s mouth but not one’s nose on the cloth.
CHAPTER 3: A MEDIEVAL HOUSEWIFE (Citing Rules of Conduct for Women from Poet Robert Blois)
The greatest hazard in the life of a woman of the thirteenth century is childbirth. If she survives the childbearing period, she stands a good chance of outliving her husband.
CHapter 4: Childbirth and Children
We are a bit removed from this in modern life, but sex was literally risking her life 800 years ago… …it was a big deal. That is still hardwired into women today, whether modern men and women realize it or not.
An old superstition holds that when twins are born the mother has had intercourse with two different men.
CHAPTER 4: CHILDBIRTH AND CHILDREN
Wait, this isn’t true?
Well-to-do women rarely nurse their own children. The wet nurse is chosen with care, for all manner of qualities may be imbibed with her milk. She must be of good character, have no physical defects, and be neither too fat nor too thin. Above all, she must be healthy, for corrupt milk is blamed for many of the maladies that afflict infants. She must watch her diet—eat white bread, good meat, rice, lettuce, almonds and hazelnuts, and drink good wine. She must rest and sleep well and use moderation in bathing and in working.
CHAPTER 4: CHILDBIRTH AND CHILDREN
Don’t let a fat party girl nurse your baby. Makes sense.
Marriages, at least those of the wealthy classes, have a legal as well as religious basis, with a contract drawn up by the notary specifying the bride’s dowry. The son and daughter of wealthy burghers may start life with a house, one or two small farm properties, some cash, and the rent from a house in town. The contract may also specify what property will be the bride’s after her husband’s death; if it does not, she automatically inherits one-third of his worldly goods.
Interesting that common law was 1/3 of a husbands assets after death. The paragraph prior to this one explained that divorce was extremely rare.
After the contract is drawn up, the next step is the betrothal, a religious ceremony of a solemnity approaching that of marriage itself. […] sometimes couples consider themselves married when they are no more than betrothed, converting an engagement into a clandestine marriage, which one party may later find easy to dissolve.
CHAPTER 5: WEDDINGS AND FUNERALS
The “long engagement” has been around for a loooooong time… Imagine the scoundrel daygamers of 1250 promising betrothal, only to disappear come winter.
Another trade closely associated with the taverns is prostitution. The girls of the Champagne Fair cities are famous throughout Europe. When the fair is on, servant girls, laundresses, tradeswomen, and many others find a profitable sideline.
Chapter 6: Small Business
A medieval tavern sounds like a strip club. Some things haven’t changed much in 800 years. Oldest profession indeed…
Also, a servant girl in Champagne is literally a “french maid.” Sounds hot.
[During the fair, the] cadre of regular prostitutes has been reinforced by serving wenches, tradeswomen, and farmers’ daughters.
Chapter 16: The Champagne Fair
Oldest profession indeed. Wasn’t there a British woman with a PhD that moonlighted as a prostitute? My bad, she was actually American…
Things haven’t changed much in 800 years, for better or worse.
TLDR: Experimenting with Daygame in college towns. Where to find water in the desert. Opening with masks.
So I know some people have strong opinions about wearing masks and how this whole covid thing is a big hoax. With all the riots and arson and looting (in American cities) and random lockdown regulations, one just loses trust in the government: Ronald Reagan once famously said “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.” I don’t know what to make of it. I’ve been reading books, working out (lifting, sprinting, trail running), working on a number of business ideas and also somehow landed a reasonably well-paid remote job, so I’m coming out of this fairly robust and quite fortunate. I do know it’s nearly impossible for Americans to travel abroad right now (even Canada just opened up 2 weeks ago), and my permajaunt plans (which were set for April) were placed on indefinite hold until Europe lets us Yankees visit again. I hope to head back to Central and Eastern Europe soon, but I expect it will be early 2021 at the soonest, but we have no idea. So in the meantime, I’m here, in America, thriving during a pandemic, but it happens to be a land full of American women. Fantastic.
Americans are really individualistic and many refuse to wear masks, unless (but also sometimes especially because) the governor mandates it. I was in a gun store recently (any guesses why?), and I was one of the only people wearing a mask (despite governor’s orders to do so), so some people are not wearing a mask as an act of individualism and resistance against the government. I can see both sides, I don’t buy that masks are humiliating unless you buy an ugly one, and I agree they probably become counterproductive when they get wet. It is nice that collective societies like Asian cultures do wear masks as a society and that probably helps reduce contagion, but this is America and we don’t always get to have nice things. So I don’t care and just wear the mask to not be hassled. Most anti-maskers are conservative and leave you alone if you wear a mask, and the pro-maskers get their underwear tied in knots if you don’t and aren’t worth the hassle. I also look like a fierce villain in a mask and I think that works in my favor.
I left New York City (daygamenyc was a good domain for 3 years). Now I am in a college town. College just started over the past week or two. I found some water in the desert initially: most of the summer I have been dating a girl I met while in line for my new drivers license (while wearing a mask. The mask did not block my vibe. She only saw my full face when we exchanged numbers).
Did I mention college just started up again?
Whether you are in a major city or not, most shopping malls are closed. Most major business districts with clothing (that would be good high foot traffic locations) have been closed for quarantine or by government decree, damaged by looting or riots and have earned a reputation for being unsafe. Girls like shopping and feeling safe. This is very bad for daygame.
So where do you go? I have been looking at green open park areas, especially along rivers and lakes, but volume is low. I’ve observed there are lots of seated 2 sets here (girls putting themselves in a fishbowl and hoping to magically summon a pair of hot guys that trip and fall in their laps) and the occasional solo girl out for a walk or reading a book.
A few days ago I started approaching properly again to shake off the rust. I have only done a small number of approaches since April. I missed the first few walking girls, but opened a girl reading by a lake, and got her number. She texted me right away, and then didn’t respond after that. I’m guessing she was about 20, so a prime age for flakery. Still, I’ll have a few more of those, please, and eventually something will work out.
Big box stores (Target, Walgreens, CVS Pharmacy, IKEA, etc.) and grocery stores (24 hour grocery stores, as well as the smaller organic food o-op places) have been OK. I usually get about one opportunity when I am out shopping. I have a plan to visit about 3-5 such stores in close proximity to one another as a daygame “session” and see if that is practical.
Today it was the cashier at the pharmacy: I had asked her about a product in the store, and she asked me a personal question about it when I was checking out. I recognized something on her mask and teased her about it, and we had a moment. It was just good vibes, but an avoidance weasel was telling me wasn’t quite strong enough to go for a number close. I think Mr.V got a number from a cashier once, but I’ve never properly tried. I’m regretting not playing to win on that, but this town is small enough I may get another chance.
Finally, to the point: I have had good luck opening girls with masks. However you feel about it politically, it is a conversation piece. I just added a European country flag patch to my mask that will give girls a bit of conversational assistance to ask me about when we are indoors and are required to wear masks. I know longburndafire avoids wearing masks indoors and I think it can cut both ways. Opening is more important than mask or no mask, especially in low volume times like we find ourselves in, so do what you are comfortable with.
I’ve been experimenting, and my best opening line, for a girl wearing a mask, is: wait for it… “Cool mask!” and then teasing is easy with a choice of to bank robbing, looting, looking like a nurse, or an animal if there is animal print on her mask (surprisingly common), etc.
The local college also gave students masks with the college logo on it. So now I can spot them a mile away (also helps whitelist them as being over 18) and ask any girl if she goes there, and drop a stereotype about the school. How are the classes formatted: “are classes taught remote or in person?” And for a challenge “Are you learning anything?” While this seems pretty basic for a stack, girls have had a boring summer and are starved for attention, and it just seems like they bust open or gush with conversation once you open them. “I bet you have a cute smile under that mask” is my go to spike. I insert/blurt out at the earliest opportunity that I used to live in New York City before moving here, and my fashion and fitness stand out a little bit more in this smaller town.
The townspeople are less active from leftover lockdown inertia, so there are just more students visibly out and about. There were even 4 college kids out with signs about abolishing the police (won’t happen in this town). It made me laugh and gave me a little state pump.
It’s all an experiment. I have some new skills now after learning daygame in NYC, and trying them in a lower volume area is a new challenge. I don’t need as much volume to learn anymore, so I expect I will be able to find some water in the desert (In some sense, I already have, but I want MORE).
Also, I bought a car. So now I can do that thing where I stop, put on my emergency lights, and chase down a girl. Feels try-hard, but I’ll probably learn something from it, so I’ll give it the old college try if the opportunity appears.
I started approaching in August 2017. I’ve been at this thing called Daygame for 3 years. It’s been a great experience, and I’m excited for the next few years.
TLDR
Gray man anonymity is important to me. Fuck you Twitter.
Do 5 approaches a day to climb the daygame learning curve. Be creative or wait until after Covid-19 passes to make progress.
1 in 10 is a fine yield of numbers to approaches.
Daygame can be a strong signal of positive psychological feedback, much better than the noisy signal of online game or night game.
Also, use a burner phone for Twitter and no email. I don’t think my contact page, if it exists, even works on this website and I don’t care.
As part of trying to stay under the radar, I don’t want to sell anything online, I don’t want to teach game (it is a truly thankless job), and I claim to want to stick to trusted networks and avoid too much contact with daygamers (and even more so the various flavors of wannabe daygamers online and their weird energy, and the people who do other types of game and have highly variable opinions about daygame) though in practice I am curious about people and pretty open to meeting new people. I do have a strict rule that I must see someone approach at least once to continue hanging out with them; it’s a good filter. Vibe also matters. I prefer to meet up with people that are referrals of people I have met, or people that I encounter on the street (because they are actually approaching!). I met @RoyWalkerPUA and @ThomasCrownPUA via introductions from @DaysofGame_com. I spotted @DaygameBreeze on the street when he approached and number closed a girl I was about to approach (she was hot) and he approached me when I was out with @MrVDaygame (who @DaysOfGame_com encouraged me to meet up with, and I’m glad he did). I hope to possibly one day meet up with @seven_dg, Xants, @gringodaygame, @YuriODaygame, FSU Daygame and @LeeChoDaygame if we are in the same Eastern European country.
Someone said it’s important to share your age so others can compare and evaluate one’s results better. I understand that point, but I don’t think sharing my age will help that much relative to my other goal for this blog, which was/is to provide an example of what the daygame journey is and figuring out a repeatable process for learning it, regardless of age. Speaking of which, I am between 18 and 52, the prime ages to be doing daygame. Anyway, I started this blog because this Daygame thing was starting to work, but there was no real prescription for how to train up in daygame. Krauser’s memoirs (which I have not yet read and I admit I totally judged them by their ridiculously tasteless titles and covers) all struck me as more an attempt to model himself after Casanova than being useful for learning. @DaysOfGame_com is reading them now, and is reporting good things, so I probably should read them.
My Most Important Lesson to Share
After 3 years, the most valuable thing I have to say is: if you want to learn daygame, to regularly improve, you need to approach an average of 5 girls per day (150 per month). This is hard to do in Covid times, so consider developing yourself in other ways, like developing a hobby, getting in shape, reading books, and starting side hustle businesses instead and attacking the daygame learning curve later. You’re not going to get much better at 1/day and you’re spamming if you’re approaching 20-30 per day (and probably a super spreader in Covid times). My unsolicited advice, if you must approach, go to grocery stores and talk to girls about their masks or lack thereof. Other minor conclusions I came to on my own: I determined that Europe is, in fact, easier than NYC. I was doing some seriously stupid shit on dates. I declared myself an intermediate daygamer (which I arbitrarily defined for myself as 1 close in 90 approaches regularly for 3 months in a row) which is a silly declarative award that’s entirely in my head. But I earned it by myself, from myself, for myself for getting real results that I am pleased with. I’m sure there are many guys who have better stats than I, but I’m now competitive enough to truly have a chance against other men for the girls I like, and to get the quality I want. To the extent it is competitive, it is now mostly competition with myself, just like running on a track.
On Yield
One formative experience was at one point on Twitter revealing my early stats of approximately 1 close in 500 approaches and having none other than @jimmy_jambone (one of Krauser’s better known associates) and @BodiPUA (one of Krauser’s lesser known associates) pile on and both tell me to quit with varying levels of politeness communicating that perhaps daygame wasn’t for me. I didn’t like to hear that. I dismissed Bodi outright as I didn’t think my journey was going to be as dark as his was rumored to be, and in some sense I was flattered that Jimmy commented, but also chose to ignore his comment, as discouraging as it might have been, because I was making progress after all. I wasn’t putting up huge numbers, but I was getting high quality. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, I think I wasted my first year by not approaching enough. Then things picked up when I figured out the right amount of volume and started approaching an average of 5 girls per day.
Some other guy on Twitter selling a daygame book whose name I don’t remember also said I should be getting 1 number in 5 approaches and proceeded to dole out opinions presumably to bolster his authority and sell whatever is in his book. If you know who I’m talking about, ignore that guy, I can’t even remember who he is. I was getting (and continue to get) 1 in 10 pretty consistently. Game is harder for every 5 years of age gap according to Krauser, so maybe I was going for a bigger *yet legal* age gap, or maybe I was hitting on hotter girls (we actually do have 9s walking around in NYC and I approach them sometimes) or maybe girls in New York city just reject men more than anywhere else (a @MrVDaygame theory that has yet to be disproven). If you’re reading this 1 in 10 is fine. 1 in 5 is great. No one is 100% and I also don’t know anyone that is so terrible they get 1 in 100. I’m getting a decent yield so I’m pretty happy, and if your stats are better than mine, good for you, I didn’t ask.
Daygame: Positive Feedback Conditioning
One other comment I want to make after 3 years of this is that the psychological conditioning from positive feedback received during daygame made me a better man. I had done some night game and online game before starting daygame and done OK (I’m neither tall nor short, average looking, was in decent shape, have a career and some job skills, dressed well enough, interesting hobbies) but it was inconsistent. Feedback from girls online and in night game was so variable and the quality was also so variable the message your brain gets is really noisy and doesn’t really help to build your confidence.
Daygame was hard but when it started to work for me, I knew I was going to be OK. For one thing, even girls who weren’t available loved that I approached them and often gave me compliments and thanked me for approaching. That was extremely positive feedback. When I got a number from an 18 year old fashion model (in my 2nd month of doing daygame) I got pretty excited (even though it died quickly after a few text exchanges). When I started to get those numbers and dates of girls that I chose to approach because I found them attractive, it gave me a huge burst of confidence, knowing that I could go out on the street and *eventually* find a girl I wanted to seduce and possibly date. That positive feedback a guy earns from daygame is a strong signal, namely approaching, getting compliments, getting numbers, getting dates and closing is extremely positive psychological feedback and that fuels the psychological growth that makes us more confident. That confidence led me to get into better shape, to dress even better, to make better career choices to improve my lifestyle. The positive feedback loop spirals ever upward. Deeper social and psychological changes happened too: as I improved my game my enforcement of my personal boundaries improved (having choice with women helps develop this), which positively reinforced my frame and my confidence, and that all really helps in dealing with friends, family, business contacts and negotiations, and of course girls.
So Roosh became a born again Christian. I was a bit surprised when it happened. I’ve watched maybe 2 or 3 of his videos. Felt mostly indifferent. Then I started to connect some dots.
I have a few other friends who have studied game (they are offline – as in not on twitter – but they might read my blog) who have run the full gauntlet from being filthy players, knocking up girls and then hoping they get abortions (they did), to now being extremely christian, to the point of doing what is known as christian dating, which I must admit I don’t really understand. Their journey has been VERY different than mine, and probably will continue to be so going forward. A conversation with one of them earlier this evening inspired this.
I was raised and attended a christian church as a child and a teenager, but my early experience with church was mainly exposure to what is now commonly called virtue signalling. I equated virtue signalling with “church” like many in my generation, and was repulsed so thoroughly that I stopped going as soon as I was able. Called myself an atheist for many years – only recently I realized this was some sort of reverse signalling of my rejection of virtue signalling. Irony.
This is a daygame blog, why are we here? With a nod to the great prophet “Mystery” a pattern emerged over time: I got numbers from some girls in New York on Sundays, on their way to or from church (churches would have services multiple times during the day in NYC). It was a very international mix, from memory: Spanish, Ukrainian, Russian, Brazilian, Romanian, German, South African, and naturally a few Americans. There was a fantastic Ukrainian girl I met a few times and she was always dressed like a biker (on her way to church!) and she was always happy to see me, but always had a boyfriend (I asked with a shameless grin and she shamelessly grinned right back). Another one gave me some bread she had just baked with the old church ladies. A strange offering, but I ate it and it was delicious. I don’t think I closed any of the church girls. I got one out on a date, did not close.
I think daygame would be a superior way to meet girls who are christian if I were looking for that, but I don’t think I am at this time. Even though I consider myself lightly christian and not an atheist anymore, I suspect I don’t quite fit with their definition and expectations of what a christian guy should be like, and I’m not motivated to adapt to it. I don’t want to virtue signal to please girls, which is what it would feel like to me aka “nice guy” behavior. The church teaches this “anti-game” behavior, which is a real tragedy. I’m also still enjoying the benefits of sin and I haven’t yet peaked thus I am not yet ready to seek salvation. My suggestion for christian guys looking for christian girls, is that they should do daygame all day Sunday. The good Lord would be pleased by your approaches and will bless you with reduced approach anxiety as you are filled with the holy spirit.
It is also worth mentioning that in my experience there are some girls that are seriously Christian and play by the rules of christian dating (which I don’t get at all – we filter each other out quickly), and then there are a significant number of girls that say they are Christian, but really just use the church as a vessel for virtue signalling (these signalling types likely exist in other major world religions, and modern Los Angeles Buddhist yoga girls might also fall into this category). Those signalling girls are the girls that respond just fine to game; they are making an effort to signal that they are good girls, whether or not that is actually true. Nassim Taleb calls this cheap signalling.
The main reason for my personal shift back from the brink of atheism was just the realization of how much of an epic fail the Christian church in particular has been in recent history. Traditional values and roles for men and women were passed down by a tradition, and that tradition was typically a church (also applies roughly to Judaism and Islam). At this moment in time, Islam seems to do a pretty good job of teaching the roles of men and women in current society. I pulled a Saudi girl a few years back (the sex was fantastic, but I didn’t keep in contact with her because I was mildly concerned she would be stoned if her father discovered the messages between us – I’m serious, having her blood on my hands would feel shittier than not texting her back). For Christianity in the last 60+ years, values and gender roles were not properly transferred between generations and as a result more recent generations have had to figure out dating and game for ourselves. The church failed to uphold the traditions (e.g. defend against feminism), and sold out to virtue signalling. Is virtue signalling the result of feminist doctrine adulterating the church? The Christian church is broken. All the clergy and well meaning but horribly inept church ladies, and edgy “youth pastor” creeps and nice guy dads of the church couldn’t put humpty dumpty back together again. They are a useless congregation and not people I want to influence myself or an eventual wife and family.
The modern church has virtue signaling as the dominant theme (in my limited observation) and I don’t have enough data on if or how families form in church – from what I can tell, people meet outside of church and then form a family and then go shopping for a church for virtue signalling community and to teach their kids to virtue signal. That sounds pretty jaded. If you know of churches that are not like that, please try and sell me on it. I’m VERY skeptical, but I will listen.
What it would take for me to go full christian would be a church that wasn’t run by a wimp. That’s a tall order. So many priests are women (immediate fail), and the catholic church has been thoroughly corrupted financially and morally and there are a number of sketchy priests. The Mormons do seem to teach gender roles and motherhood (lots of urban lawyer type women have admitted guilty pleasures of following Mormon mommy blogs), but the Mormon guys I met all had a used car salesman vibe where their sales training outweighed their charisma, so it frequently comes across like a pyramid scheme – same for Jehovah’s witnesses. The Mormons probably deserved to be trolled by the guy in Kinderhook.
I think I would actually like to go back to a church, if it were full of a bunch of guys that had their lives together, and knew how to lead women, their women knew how to follow, and they brought their families and believed similar things. Almost sounds like a proper church. Sometimes this fantasy church would read relevant phrases from the original Gospel, known as the Bible, but other forms of gospel (e.g. the Mystery method) could be sprinkled in the odd sermon.
It would be a new reformation of the church. I don’t like using the term “red pill” but I’ll use it for lack of a better umbrella term. A red pill reformation is coming. Someone is going to do it. Maybe multiple people will try it. Maybe someone already did and not many people know about it because failure is an orphan. I don’t think Roosh has quite enough charisma to succeed, though he may try, and to be fair, he’s got way more charisma than that guy Rollo. It could also just be a search problem, and there may well already be small religious groups doing exactly this. Don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
Finally, a reformation could be the wrong way to think about it, a red pill reformation could also just be Christianity dying with a whimper and Pre-Christian religions rise again, more along the lines of a bronze age something or other (I read his book, and it didn’t really grab me), taking us back to aesthetics and nature and might-makes-right and a more primitive pagan ritualistic paradigm. Perhaps civilization is an experiment that is soon due to end and we will revert to more primitive warlord and tribal cultures. Something will form, I don’t know what it is yet, but I’m watching for it.
By this point, I’ve probably managed to offend anyone who has any semblance of religion, especially people who ascribe to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or paganism, with a special twist of the knife to Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Good. Maybe the Atheists are amused anyway.
2 more loosely related thoughts that didn’t fit with the flow of my reformation idea above:
Christian wives are not a magical panacea that solve all red pill complaints. I was just at the DMV last week (where I got a girl’s number), and I was talking to an older guy who told me his sob story of his first wife. He got a million dollar settlement from a car accident, and put it in their joint account, and she donated all of it to the church. Dumb woman for virtue signalling, dumb man for not controlling his finances better. Poor guy. He divorced her and married again and seemed to do better the second time around.
There are a lot of good platitudes in the bible, and for some reason, many guys want to just follow truthy sounding platitudes on twitter, and “will not explain” makes me laugh each time I see it. Women do this too on Instagram with images that say “Live, Laugh, Love” in purple fonts. I try to have the discipline to block it when I encounter it on most platforms. But I do wonder if someone were to try and stealthily adapt bible quotes and feed it to these people, would it work? If anyone knows of an attempt, I’d like to hear about it. Not that I would do it, but I could envision some “youth pastor” using scammy twitter promotion harvesting tactics to promote “the word.”
27 “Look,” says the Teacher, “this is what I have discovered:”
“Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things— 28 while I was still searching but not finding— I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. 29 This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes.”
Some things don’t translate well over electronic communication. I recently learned a lesson in that.
I have a “possible marriage list” of a few girls I still keep in contact with, despite living in different countries. I met them in New York City, and we had a whirlwind romance and they had to return to their native countries.
One of them, with whom I have been talking to for 2 years (I met and closed her about 2 years ago in NYC, and visited her about a year ago) recently told me she was in a new relationship. It started after the Covid-19 lockdowns, so I want to blame a lockdown nesting effect, but who knows if that’s real, and that is not important anyway. I withdrew and ignored her after learning about her new relationship, thanked her for telling me, not being too worried about it, and also wanting to give her a chance to sort it out herself.
Over the next few weeks, she got upset that I was ignoring her, even though she was like “It’s ok if you don’t want to talk anymore, I will understand.” but she wasn’t actually ok with it. I tried Nash’s recommended approach of “we’re lovers, we’re good, we’ll connect again if we are in the same city” and sort of leave it open as the smooth distance lovers ships passing in the night kind of thing.
Unfortunately, that’s a great theoretical way to do things, but reality is messy. She’s not as mature as I had hoped. She took it poorly. I had been very clear and was enforcing my boundaries and somehow she felt entitled to friendzone me and threw a tantrum when I stood fast. It came across to me as very tone deaf, and just showed me that she wasn’t that mature. Internally I lost a lot of respect for her. I explained it in more depth, which I didn’t really want to do – here I was giving into the feminine chaos of a girl I was no longer dating. I told her we were close and had a good trust between us and could talk about anything, but I just didn’t want to talk to her right now. She says “I feel like I’m losing you, and it makes me sad.” “That’s because you are.” I still don’t think she gets that it’s kind of weird to have a boyfriend and then try and friendzone an ex that you are super close with. Maybe I have stronger boundaries than her boyfriend, and who knows what her boundaries are. I hope he sets some for her…
This is why we can’t have nice things. I’ll be fine, I really just wanted to know where I stood with her and invest my time accordingly, and now I know that it has run its course and its time to cross her off the list (for now and probably forever) and move on.
I learned something valuable from this experience. Since Daygame has stopped for a while due to the Coronavirus, my rate of learning has slowed down, so I’ll take the learning where I can get it.
In a conversation I had with Nash recently he said that there are “3 qualities we offer lovers”
attention (high quality attention, letting her “be seen”)
affection (touch, hugging, etc.)
sex (self-explanatory)
It is possible and not entirely uncommon that boyfriends and husbands can offer a whopping 0 of those 3.
There is also a relationship tool circulating out there called the 5 love languages. The 5 love languages are:
Physical Touch (Sex, hugs, kissing, hand holding, kino escalation in pickup lingo)
Quality Time (spending time together, going on dates, pillow talk)
Words of Affirmation (verbalizing that you care, verbal validation, noticing them)
Acts of Service (taking care of them when they are sick, taking out the trash because they hate it and you don’t mind, fixing her car/computer/furniture)
Gifts (self-explanatory)
People may express love and receive love with different languages, and some are usually stronger than others. There’s a book if you really want to learn in depth about these. It’s a damn tragedy that nobody reads anymore, but I don’t feel like elaborating. Read a book, you’re probably locked down anyway.
If one were to attempt to translate Nash’s 3 qualities mentioned above into love languages, you’re probably looking at something like quality time and physical touch with a sprinkle of affirmation.
Another major point that was burned into my memory from that conversation was that “people try and compensate for not being there by using text messages.”
As I was thinking about what Nash said, and how things got to be this way with this girl, some dots were connected. I had an epiphany, which is as follows:
Love Languages translate VERY poorly over text
I had gotten close to this girl and when we were in the same city, it was a foregone conclusion that there would be sexy time. That was great. But at some point in the last year, I gave her too much “love” over text and it backfired – even worse, she felt entitled to it.
She and I had pretty good love language communications in person, but after I left her the last time, we communicated a LOT over text. In retrospect it was too much.
As mentioned above, Nash said he as seen situations where people try and compensate for not being there in person, by doing love languages over text, and I think if I were to reflect back upon the past year with this girl, I probably fell into that trap.
I expanded this thought into the 5 Love languages, as poorly executed over text (Examples are extreme):
Physical Touch (Sexting, swapping nudes/dick pics) [poor proxy for the real thing, she gets almost full sexual validation, you get a photo or some dirty talk at best]
Quality Time (having deep chats, talking about things going on in your life, making plans) [easy to attempt to compensate for not being there – I am guilty of THIS one]
Words of Affirmation (social media validation, liking each others posts, comments, sending thinking of you or missing you texts) [See any female instagram post for examples]
Acts of service (giving her advice about something, helping her with her english exam/thesis) [I am guilty of THIS one too.]
Gifts (amazon wish lists, cash apps, buying merchandise from an e-girl, sugar type shit) [See e-girls and their simps online]
I ignore girls on social media mostly, I don’t send dick pics, and I don’t buy girls anything. So words of affirmation, physical touch and gifts are not much of a danger for me over text. But I did fall into the trap of trying to compensate for the distance with quality time and acts of service. I have talked to girls for hours on the phone in another country. I have also been that guy that helps the exotic foreign beauty I kissed with her 10 page paper and corrects a few english mistakes. Oops.
I don’t do this anymore, but I did. I’m realizing that the best cadence to keep in contact with these girls on the “marriage list” is to keep them at arms length. Don’t get too close, and let them come to you. By trying too hard to stay in touch and compensate for the distance with the only medium you have available (text/voice/whatsapp), the dynamic can skew toward pedestalization (if not in reality, in her mind), and if they are immature, like my recent experience, they can react poorly to your withdrawal.
The long burn game with the other girl on my possible marriage list is flowing more naturally. This was a perfect textbook daygame seduction, and that energy has continued. And our cadence of contact is maybe about once every 4-8 weeks we have a burst of conversation, usually sparked by a holiday or an instagram story or something like that.
The other important takeaway is to focus on the girls in the here and now (which due to lockdown and being unable to approach has dropped off precipitously) and I’m actually backing off from this idea of a marriage list. I think its still there in the back of my mind, but demoting the importance I had previously given it is probably healthier and will improve how I manage my long burn communication with girls. Focus on the here and now and make magic with that, rather than try and maintain the magic over text.
Also, I didn’t think about it until I saw the posting date, but it’s been a year since I started this blog. Hmm.
I was concerned that people online were misunderstanding the idea of “endgame.” Sounds like I care too much about what people online think. I don’t really care that much. However, it is important when dealing with impressionable minds of men who will be going out and talking to girls to communicate clearly and encourage them to know what they want, such that they have a chance of getting it. Most people don’t know what they want.
Personally, I am interested in having a family, though there is no guarantee that it will happen for me. Yes, I could knock up a girl and reproduce, but I want to do more than that, I want to create a family and thrive.
That sounds like I’m pursuing an endgame get a wife, make a baby, the end. Game over.
Krauser wants a wife. Roosh wants a wife. Actually a lot of guys want a wife.
I agree with Magnum on this that there is no endgame. A wife and/or family is not the endgame. We all die alone. If you get into a relationship and that grows into a family, you still run the risk of a woman losing attraction for you and freeing herself from the situation in a way that an American lawyer gets paid (by you) to make painful and expensive (even if you’re not married – California laws are that bad). There is no end to that risk – you signed up for the relationship maintenance contract.
When Magnum says “So I’m at peace with being a player forever. As a man you have to be able to bring new women into your life on an ongoing basis, and pair-bond with them as you see fit.” this is certainly a valid option. And it seems to be a common interpretation of “No Endgame.”
However, I think it’s such an important topic, I wanted to share another perspective. My perspective.
Equilibrium is not “Men and Women are Equal!” Equilibrium is the balance between the male seduction and protection and the female submission and support. I’m not going to call it ying and yang, but I could.
If you are able to build a relationship with a rough equilibrium, then the amount of work needed to maintain the relationship is significantly reduced. Not going to call it easy mode because relationships are hard, but building it from an equilibrium is easier. How it starts is how it goes. You end up putting in about as much energy as you get out of it, give or take. No resentment builds, and you get the benefits of being in a relationship. Neither spouse is a drag upon the other. 1 + 1 can equal 3.
“What do I need to do to make her feel beautiful? What does she need to relax? What can’t she see about herself that would make her glow? What makes her feel sexy? What opens her heart? What fantasies does she need to explore? What does she need to feel to have the experience of a lifetime? What makes her melt? What does she need to feel such that she can shine for me? What does she need to feel so she can surrender to me… and really let herself “go?” What would the experience be that would make her more than eager to come back and do it all again?
And it is illustrative to cite a few quotes by a woman, Patricia Albere, from that same post describing how a woman knows or feels when equilibrium is and isn’t there:
“If he takes you someplace you want to go, then you can surrender to him. A lot of men don’t know where they are going. They’re not that attuned to you. They don’t necessarily care how it is for you, they are way too selfish. There is something that just doesn’t happen.” — Patricia Albere
“You can tell that a lot of times men just want what they want, and they want you to show up in a way that they can get off on the whole situation, and it’s not too much of a turn on for women. You kind of know if the man is actually really connected and wants something to happen for both of you.” — Patricia Albere
A woman in equilibrium is also exploring ways of supporting you, trusting you, surrendering and submitting to you, pleasing you, opening up to you, and taking care of you. She makes you sandwiches, so to speak.
Nash’s post goes deeper than I want to for purposes of this post, but it’s worth reading for a deeper understanding of seduction.
I’ve had 2 relationships built with equilibrium.
How does one build a relationship with equilibrium?
First, let me tell you a personal story to provide some context:
I did nightgame some years ago, and occasionally I would have an intense lover connection with a girl I met at a bar or a club, and occasionally I would experience a non-lover connection from a girl where she is interested in me for whatever reason, but the sex was more… …dutiful. The reasons women decide to have sex are all over the map.
I also tried some online game, and girls online seem to be sometimes looking for lovers or sometimes boyfriends and they are optimizing from among a wide selection of online men and probably aren’t even that happy with the results, and in NYC women will struggle with getting commitment from a guy. My experience with online dating was lackluster. I was able to meet and date and seduce girls but almost all of the sex was the sort of dutiful sex, a version of “keep you around because you are an interesting option” maintenance sex rather than the lover mode of “I desire you” sex.
My experience in daygame has provided me with almost exclusively lover sex from the girls I have met. The girls that make it through my filter really want me and want to please me and the sex is good. I work hard and approach a lot, but I’m happy with the results, and I see more improvement in my future.
That lover connection is the spark that creates conditions where equilibrium can happen.
Start with that connection as lovers, she is really attracted to you and has raw sexual desire for you. That can happen superficially and it is called limerence, but at least in my mind’s eye, I’m talking more about a deeper level of seduction (level 3), where the man makes her shine and protects her, and she supports and pleases him.
So anyway, you start off as lovers in a deep level of seduction. You enjoy her, your psychologies and social class backgrounds are matched enough that you don’t find each other annoying (or mismatched enough that you find each other exotic), and maybe even enjoy talking and spending significant time together or your love languages match well. If the things you want in life are similar (babies being the biggest one usually), you have an approximate equilibrium. The man can choose to commit to the woman (who, not always, but usually hopes to convert him from a lover into a lover and a provider – the big score) and even get married and/or make a baby.
This here is the point that a number of guys might consider endgame, but it’s actually just a (possibly temporary) equilibrium.
One can also get married and make a baby without being in equilibrium. Sometimes people figure it out and grow together and sometimes they don’t and/or they grow apart. You can imagine how it plays out.
Equilibrium can break down if it’s not maintained. It can happen in many different ways: some guys relax and play video games now that they don’t have to spend time chasing girls and are getting regular (perhaps just dutiful) sex from a girl they like enough and who puts up with them. Or he loses his job and she resents him while she works to keep the household afloat. Or she gets fat from eating her feelings and he loses attraction for her.
Equilibrium requires work. The guy is not free from the responsibility of leading and staying attractive as best they can, or even being a good father if they have kids. That’s another side of “there is no endgame.” You don’t get to rest. You might get to rest when you are dead – but I’m not even certain about that.
Women have responsibilities too, they should remain attractive as best they can (despite time and nature and gravity working against them), they should be supportive, and may have significant responsibilities as a mother. They shoulder some of the responsibility for maintaining equilibrium, but even at their most equal, it’s still probably at least 51% the man’s responsibility to maintain this equilibrium.
So back to Magnum, when he says he is “at peace with being a player forever.” He’s expressing that he can get close enough to achieving that equilibrium on his terms and doesn’t have to lock it in with exclusivity or marriage. He can have relationships for the timeframes and intimacy level he wants. He has the skills to make that happen, so it’s a good choice for him, until he changes his mind and wants something else.
It’s possible to maintain the equilibrium and have a family without locking it in with exclusivity and marriage. However, society isn’t there yet, and there are many cringeworthy examples of attempts to do so provided by new age communes and fringe religious groups around the world.
Yes, the legal system discriminates against men in marriage. Most men are not able to choose beforehand the jurisdiction their marriage would be litigated in in the event of a divorce (divorce laws in all 50 states of the US all vary, as do countries in the world), and even if they could, judges can throw it out. So yeah, there is significant risk of marriage. That’s not news. However, starting in equilibrium and putting in the work to maintain that equilibrium helps manage that risk – and gives you a fair shot. If you have some basic game and frame control, go to the gym and take care of your health, have a mission or even just a job, you’re probably going to do better than most guys and have a lower (but not zero!) chance of divorce, and if you do get divorced, you have the skills to start over again. Your odds are better than the even odds of divorce statistics, but it is not riskless.
For me, there is no endgame either. I am looking for an equilibrium to create a family and I think it may make sense to lean on the traditional structure that society provides (an example being a marriage in a jurisdiction that is not as dysfunctional as the United States or Anglo countries), but I also recognize the responsibility that I will have to maintain that equilibrium possibly until I am dead. That’s my interpretation of “No Endgame.” Maybe I won’t find it. Maybe I will one day come to a realization similar to what Magnum has realized about himself. We’ll see.
In a famous historical myth, The Odyssey, Homer tells stories of a great hero Odysseus (also known as Ulysses) sailing home from his journey home after the Trojan war.
On his journey home he encountered the sirens. Beautiful women with golden hair who would sing songs to sailors, and lure them to crash upon their rocks. Lure is the word often used, and I think it’s slightly unfair to call it luring.
Odysseus gets a warning from the goddess Circe:
First you will come to the Sirens who enchant all who come near them. If any one unwarily draws in too close and hears the singing of the Sirens, his wife and children will never welcome him home again, for they sit in a green field and warble him to death with the sweetness of their song.
There is a great heap of dead men’s bones lying all around, with the flesh still rotting off them. Therefore pass these Sirens by, and stop your men’s ears with wax that none of them may hear; but if you like you can listen yourself, for you may get the men to bind you as you stand upright on a cross-piece half way up the mast, and they must lash the rope’s ends to the mast itself, that you may have the pleasure of listening. If you beg and pray the men to unloose you, then they must bind you faster.
Samuel Butler’s translation of The Odyssey, Book XII, online via MIT.
And his description of the actual island of the sirens:
They sit beside the ocean, combing their long golden hair and singing to passing sailors. But anyone who hears their song is bewitched by its sweetness, and they are drawn to that island like iron to a magnet. And their ship smashes upon rocks as sharp as spears. And those sailors join the many victims of the Sirens in a meadow filled with skeletons.
Samuel Butler’s translation of The Odyssey, Book XII, online via MIT.
And the summary of how Odysseus handles it:
When he hears the words and the music, the song enchants Odysseus’ heart. He longs to plunge into the waves and to swim to the island. He wants to embrace the Sirens.
He strains against the bonds which hold him to the ship’s mast. He strains so hard that the bonds cut deeply into the flesh of his back and arms.
Nodding and scowling at his ear-plugged men, he urges them to free him. Expecting this reaction, the men row harder and harder with their oars.
To Odysseus, who is bewitched by the song, the Sirens look as beautiful as Helen of Troy [the most beautiful woman in the world]. To his crew, made deaf with beeswax, the Sirens seem like hungry monsters with vicious, crooked claws.
The ship speeds forward and soon the song of the Sirens is an echo of an echo. Only then do the crew members stop rowing and unplug their ears.
While Odysseus’s crew takes care of him like a band of brothers trying to protect one of their own from marrying a girl of whom they don’t approve. The story has value at that superficial level, that to one man, a woman will be Helen of Troy, but his friends may see her as a monster.
To guys who have been hurt or resentful (many shades of this exist in the male online communities and however people identify their belief systems these days) this can sound like all women are monsters and men have to protect each other from them, never get married, etc. And that is one lesson men could take away from this ancient story. However, that is purely defensive and there is a much deeper lesson that is being missed.
Odysseus was a seafarer. He was on a journey. He was on his way home to his wife and children after fighting in a war he didn’t really want to fight. He was on a larger mission, and his ship was sailing on a course that was in line with that mission. The sirens are trying to distract the set course of the ship, just a little bit, but that small distraction can take the ship off course, put it at risk of crashing on rocks, and increase the chances of the greater mission never being achieved.
Ulysses and the Sirens by J. W. Waterhouse (in a gallery in Melbourne)
Women are sirens. They can appear to be both beautiful enchanting pixies and ravenous monsters. Sometimes a man will see both sides of her, sometimes two men will each see a different side of her.
Sirens can offer the best elements of femininity, beautiful music and energy and muse-like qualities that inspire us as men to do great things and make us feel good while doing them.
However, all sirens have a monstrous side, and some sirens are more monstrous than others. Since sirens is almost always a plural, there are individuals and with that comes some variance, so there is a spectrum of behavior among the sirens. Some have been wounded by men in their lives and want men to crash on the rocks and laugh while they drown or are smashed on the rocks (exemplified in the man hating feminist archetype) while many others are bored, chaotic, clumsy or even naive and innocently good natured – but they all want to sing their songs and get attention from the sailors.
The attention given to the sirens by sailors comes at a cost to the sailor, as he could make mistakes in maintaining their course. And a great woe to the sailor who changes course to approach the sirens directly.
Resisting the Sirens call is actually a fantastic analog for maintaining frame with women. To be explicit, for readers who don’t like nuance, the siren’s call is the female frame, and we can extract lessons from the thousand year old myth that will help us today. Human sexuality hasn’t changed THAT much.
What did Odysseus do?
Odysseus didn’t have a direct way to fight back against the sirens. He set a strong disciplined course and provided failsafe instructions to make his way through it.
The Odysseus approach is to just sail his set course, songs be damned. It’s effective. He notes the sirens frame and is able to both enjoy it and be tormented as he is tempted by it and hurts himself straining against his bonds, but ultimately makes it through. Brute force. If you don’t have the natural ability or opportunity to develop skill with women, or the discipline to withstand the temptations of the siren, this is a safe tactic.
Daygame and the Siren’s Call
Daygamers are like the men who sail frequently by the island of the sirens. We have experienced the Siren’s Call first hand and lived to tell the tale. We have survived crashes when sirens have distracted us, and most of us can tell a tale (or ten!) of changing the course of our ship and how we crashed on the rocks. We regale drunken sailors in the ports with tales of their beauty and warnings of their treachery.
We haven’t seen all of the tactics of all sirens, but each of us gains unique reference experiences with each approach, text, date, or interaction. We also have a community of experienced sailors (and numerous wannabe sailors who dream of sailing one day). As the salty sailors, seasoned men, old sea dogs, and occasional cabin boy share reference experiences, patterns emerge over time. Knowledge is shared, tactics are developed, new experiences are sought out and men challenge themselves and become better men.
Warnings of a Salty Sailor or How NOT to Handle Sirens:
Attention is everything. Some of the sirens will actively try and lure sailors to ruin, while others just want a sailor to wave back at them. If the sailor is on a good course with strong winds and currents, it’s not too harmful to wave back. If the sailor is concentrating in the middle of a hurricane, it can cost everything.
The dead sailor approach is to drop everything and set a fast course directly for the island, where the reef will break the hull of his ship and the sailor will die or become a castaway, like so many before him. He accepted the frame of the siren and pays the ultimate price. This strategy we can see all too often with the simps and men who click like on every social media share of some girl they are focused on.
There are also men who are amazingly resilient in their denial and can cling to rocks and survive on a narrow and rocky deserted beach known as the “friendzone.” Some say it is a fate worse than death. In seafarer terms these men are appropriately termed “castaways” and some may have even been marooned. In the Tom Hanks movie Castaway, (SPOILER ALERT) his fiancé doesn’t wait around for him, and he develops an inscrutable bro code with a volleyball named Wilson. It is difficult for castaway men to get on a ship, let alone set it on a course, but this is what they must do.
As their songs age, many sailors may have heard a siren’s particular melody or one like it, and some sailors can even sing it from memory. The aging siren’s behaviors become more volatile: chasing ships, singing louder, demanding passage and course correction from sailors that may or may not care. While these aging sirens may move to more approachable islands with less dangerous rocks (no guarantee they will), or perhaps pluck a castaway from the rocky beach of the “friendzone,” the experienced sailors have the luxury of ignoring them. The inexperienced sailors may take the risk and pick up a siren and maybe it works out or maybe their life is even worse than if they had crashed on the rocks.
Some men have a fantasy of living on the island with the sirens. The island where a man can enjoy the songs of many sirens at once, a fabled pussy paradise. One possible outcome is that the sirens would fight over such a man and he would be torn to pieces, as in this common TV trope. I don’t know if it’s a myth or not. If it exists in reality, such an island might look like this. I don’t know or care to speculate beyond that suggestion; I don’t have much experience with that world.
There is also a fantasy island of pornography. Thirsty landlubbers can watch video recordings of sirens doing everything imaginable and singing all sorts of songs without having to sail anywhere. Weak sauce.
Example Melodies of the Siren’s Call
Typically the first siren’s call a sailor hears starts off like this: an actually hot girl gets pedestalized by the sailor, and he crashes on the rocks. She might not even notice. Or perhaps she’s seen it before, but may not have connected the dots to realize it has anything to do with her. “I was just sitting here, combing my hair and singing my song, and that man over there crashed on the rocks. Then that man as well, and that one too. How peculiar!” A slightly more self-aware siren may realize the effect she has on men, and yet, even if she does realize it, she may not care. Some may take it a step further and actively try and cause men to crash on the rocks. If this were not a mythic tale, it would be manslaughter.
The siren can notice a sailor is not immune to her song and can change her tune if she wants to get something from him (perhaps when she shifts toward wanting a provider). Sirens do not respect men who are distracted so easily by their song. They may settle for it, because they are getting something out of the deal, but they do so resentfully.
The thirst trap rap or beta bait beatboxing: The siren sends a sexy photo over text, or brings up very sexual topics relatively early in a conversation. It could be a part of the siren’s song, but it could also be a trap, which can cause a sailor to crash on the rocks. Sometimes this happens when she is returning to the island and her song is more melodic than normal due to her emotional turmoil from being dumped by a ship, or any other sort of emotional turmoil.
The melody of penpals or tune of texting to nowhere: The sailor gets the number of a siren and the text conversation stops abruptly for reasons unknown. Perhaps she begins singing for others, just wanted to see if the sailor would change his course, grows bored of watching the sailor sail his boat by her island, loses interest now that the sailor is sailing toward the island, left on another ship with another sailor and didn’t say goodbye, or the sailor might have gotten stuck in a dead spot with no wind and the conversation continues for weeks, months, years without meeting the siren. The sailor has no control over the song of the siren, it can stop at any time. It happens. Just have to go talk to more girls.
The sad sad song of woe: A siren can sing a sad song and can cry and play to the sailor’s emotions to get him to comply with her wishes. A recent personal example is that a (Russian) girl told me she quit her job but immediately clarified that they would take her back, to try and get me to cave and give her whatever it was that she wanted. I believe she said that to test my frame (I’m certain she “quit” Wednesday and then went back to work on Thursday) and I just sailed on by her island and left her there. Haven’t spoken to her since, but occasionally as I would scroll down in my messages on WhatsApp, I did notice that I would be blocked and other times unblocked. I don’t care. It may sound cold without the full context, but it was 100% the right move.
The social media song: “Follow me on Innnn – staaaaaa – grammmmm!” she croons. Following a siren and liking her photos on social media seems harmless enough, but it is distracting the sailor from their mission. Following her stories and clicking acknowledgment buttons and writing comments is like waving back to the siren. She likely notices it in aggregate (that whole aircraft carrier of sailors is waving at me), and notices when no boats are sailing by, but little in between. How much time do sailors spend on instagram instead of sailing toward their goals? It is a slightly different story if the sailor is being followed by the siren, and perhaps she notices your absence on the aircraft carrier of sailors waving at her, and maybe calls out for you directly when she doesn’t see you. That’s a good sign and is discussed later.
The help me song: The siren wants help with her homework. Financial assistance. Help moving or assembling furniture. Travel buddies. (Note this would be different than her qualifying herself, for example a girl who wanted my opinion on how her food tastes – which wouldn’t happen in NYC – no girls can cook here). Anyway, I have encountered a very specific version of this song a number of times: I usually attract smart girls, which for whatever reason means they were told to go to school and study something useless more often than not. It used to be called a Mrs. Degree, now in the USA it would be considered a student debt dowry. The siren’s final paper (which for European sirens always seems to be in English) has some mistakes that need to be corrected so she can graduate. And it’s due tomorrow! That song is lame.
The sail this waysong: The siren attempts to lead the sailor. Common example that has happened to me: on a date the siren asks you to move to a different spot: “Please sail your boat over to these rocks here, sailor. It’s perfectly safe and you can appreciate me better.” Just plain old fashioned frame stealing.
The ditty of disinterest: Sometimes the siren will sing a brief tune to get rid of a sailor. She is polite and either not interested (gives you her number and says “text me!” but will never respond) or perhaps she is afraid of you (some sailors are privateers or pirates and have cannons on their boat) or thinks you can’t handle rejection and tells tales of another sailor (“I have a boyfriend”) who may or may not exist.
The Hidden Sirens Among Us:
Girls with Boyfriends
Sometimes a girl is in a relationship and she doesn’t tell you when you approach. It happens to me regularly. You get her number and she even comes out. Eventually you find out about the boyfriend somehow.
This girl is a siren, but not on a cliff with rocks. She’s a siren already on some other dude’s ship. She’s still got her siren tricks, and since she’s already on a ship. It’s easy for her to wave over to another sailor’s ship, or sing and distract him from his course and mission. If the sailor gets off course, if his ship accidentally collides with her boyfriend’s ship, it’s the sailor’s fault, not hers. The siren doesn’t have any skin in the game, she’s on a ship one way or another. Her boyfriend will probably get mad at the sailor for hitting his ship, not necessarily at her. He might even attack the sailor or try and sink his ship. Best avoid these sirens, for they are time wasters.
If her boyfriend is a solid seafarer, perhaps he keeps her in line and keeps her busy on the ship, she doesn’t have time to wave or sing for other passing ships, and he might even see other sailors coming and keep himself and his siren safely out of their way. It’s not about mate guarding, it’s about safety on the sea. The sea is an unforgiving force of nature that will unapologetically weed your genes out of existence, and the sea will be respected.
The Beauty of Sirens
Going deep into the rabbit hole, things can get pretty dark. These innocent sailors are just trying to stay on course and these awful sirens are distracting them and causing so much trouble. Nietzsche reminded us to take a breath:
He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.
-Nietzsche in Good and Evil. 146
Repeating what was said earlier: Sirens can offer the best elements of femininity, beautiful music and energy and muse-like qualities that inspire us as men to do great things and make us feel good while doing them.
Girls are beautiful. Feminine energy is fantastic. Sex is fun and feels good and makes babies. Sirens have a beautiful side and can sing beautiful melodies.
So a sailor might want to take a siren along on his ship and enjoy them as muses for support, comfort, inspiration and entertainment on his journey. She gets something delightful out of it too, she gets off the island and goes on an adventure under his leadership and protection. He may take her along on all his voyages forever. She may jump ship and leave. She may sink his ship. He may maroon her on an island. Anything can happen. But, for at least a time, the sailor may know some joy and enjoy the song of the siren.
How does a sailor know when he might be able to capture a siren?
What the sailor should be looking for is the siren that flies off the rocks and comes to sing for him on his ship.
She wants her song to help him and inspire new voyages in support of his mission and sign up as a first mate or a stowaway or in whatever capacity he will accept her, despite the old sailor maxim that it is bad luck to have a woman on board a ship.
An experienced sailor may have listened to a number of siren songs and may recognize different qualities in a siren song that others don’t notice. He may appreciate things other sailors don’t. He can decide for himself which song he like best and might like to take along on his voyages and journeys.
A sailor should really only want to choose a siren that is making his life better: he likes her song, she’s investing in him and supporting his vision and accepting his leadership. She’s submitting to him. To the sailors reading this, you are leading or going somewhere or doing something with your life, right?
As I said above, the siren is getting something out of it. She gets off the island and goes on an adventure under his leadership and protection.
Siren Catching
As mentioned before, perhaps she noticed a particular sailor’s absence despite an aircraft carrier of sailors waving at her, and maybe calls out for him directly when she doesn’t see him. She wants to be caught. She sends him walls of text and reaches out. She makes an effort and invests.
If a siren lands on his boat, a sailor’s first instinct should be to push her off. Push is a good first step. If she wants to be on his boat, she’ll get back on, likely with something to prove.
A sailor should also test sirens that land on his boat by escalating to determine if she actually likes him or if she is just distracting him because she’s bored on the island of the sirens. For example, if you escalate in a situation with a girl, let’s say by trying to kiss her, you will find out very quickly if she likes you or maybe she suddenly has to go (or reveals a boyfriend). Maybe your escalation is too fast, but now she knows where to go when she decides she’s ready for it. There’s a lot of nuance to escalation (speed and calibration and two steps forward one step back) but the main idea is well summarized in a rhyme by a Young MC:
If the sailor is not ready to take on a siren, some say he should sail on and seek his fortune. Others may tell him to come back when he has more experience with sirens. Or as a distraction from the missions of the broader world, the sailor could go to an island within range of the sirens to study them and listen to their songs. However the sailor may not learn that much, for on that island there are plenty of hopeless guys, involuntarily celibate men who are driven mad by the sirens call.
Catching a siren is still fraught with peril. Once a sailor has trapped a siren, and has convinced himself that her song is the most beautiful, he may try to sail off with the siren too soon, before he has cleared the rocks; the sailor may try to push for a relationship too soon. While this may work occasionally, he is a foolish sailor for taking that additional risk. If he crashes, he is likely to die on the rocks and become another victim of the sirens. In my opinion, this is why the use of the word “lure” in the myth isn’t quite right, it’s more that a siren encourages a man’s eagerness and foolishness. It’s not really her fault. Oops she did it again.
When a sailor has a siren aboard his boat, she has submitted to him, and he does have the power to keelhaul her (she might like it rough), or make her walk the plank or maroon her. He can make mistakes by not keeping her busy enough, guiding her or taking proper responsibility for her. If the siren is forced off the boat, or if her position on the boat becomes unstable enough she may leave, she will be weakened and will go back to the rocks, or jump to another ship. The sailor may see the monstrous side of her as she departs.
Last bit of advice from mythology for sailors: Don’t date a girl named Medusa. I hear she uses all the online dating apps.
Do daygame to learn about sirens and their many calls. You might actually learn to sail too.
I’ve been thinking about trusted networks recently.
Daygame is risky in the #metoo era – some women can have a bad reaction to your approach if they don’t find you attractive or are just having a bad day or for any number of reasons beyond your control, but which are still 100% your fault for engaging her feminine chaos. Fear of chaos is the root of approach anxiety. It is overcome by self-confidence that you can handle that chaos. Girls cannot articulate that, but they respect it.
For me it has been approximately 1/1000 approaches where a girl was visibly upset by my approach. Before whatever random feminist finds this blog says “That’s one woman too many!” it should be noted that I took some verbal abuse from those women on the spot, and stood like a tree trunk. Then BOTH of them apologized to me. One apologized about 2 seconds later and the other said “if it makes you feel any better, I have a boyfriend.” It didn’t make me feel any better, I waived her off as her momentum had been killed and she was just standing around after going off on me and backpedaling and then didn’t know what to do next. I didn’t care and was ready to go onto the next approach.
Anyway, things get dangerous when white knights step into the picture – guys trying to be chivalrous in front of the girls and “protect” them in hopes of getting laid. What those guys are missing is that those behaviors were originally intended to impress a girl’s parents, not the girl. Girls didn’t evolve to appreciate white knight behaviors until it was their own daughter they were auctioning off to the most eligible knight. Romeo was not the white knight that the Capulets had selected for Juliet in fair Verona.
A good old fashioned mob from twitter starts with a few ragey cagey feminists, often a journalist or two, and then some white knights pile on in hopes of getting noticed. They have no qualms about doxing and harassing people, attacking their livelihoods openly and directly, so it’s not unwise to be anonymous.
Some guys have to shed their anonymity to promote their content, and I guess that’s OK. Others do it for authenticity – and while that’s respectable, it does limit you to the Overton window somewhat, and cause future risk to your career if the Overton window shifts. It’s a commitment to a viewpoint that can fall out of favor. Life is long and people will dig through your old twitter for the strangest reasons.
Anyway, those of us with jobs that would be considered more traditional careers in NYC mask ourselves and operate while sharing daylight with white knights, betas with girlfriends that chose them and never had reason to question anything, harmless gay dudes, feral urban women, and of course the woke NYU journalism majors (if you meet a girl from NYU journalism is a safe guess). Any one of them can blow your cover and start a mob against you, trying to dox you, call your employer and get you fired for being a mysogonyst or whatever darker slurs they can come up with. I’m not super afraid of being doxxed, I think I could handle it, but there would be an opportunity cost of distracting me from the stuff I want to do – dealing with vitriol from people I don’t care about is a waste of time. I don’t write for them. I write to find others that belong in the trusted network.
Trusted networks are important. When you get into game – you usually start meeting guys from some online group or lair as it was called by Neil Strauss in “The Game,” and the guys in any given group are all over the map. A regular ragtag group of misfits that would never be put in a Disney movie to succeed against all odds. I’ve found that maybe 1 in 10 is actually worth maintaining contact with despite whatever personality flaws they may have (and they all do, I do too). The best filter I have come up with is to only connect with people who I’ve seen approach. A number of guys just want to hang out and talk about getting girls but not actually approach. Strangely, they also like to talk online, and consider getting a number to be a big fucking deal. It’s almost like they hope that by hanging out with you, something rubs off on them but they don’t want to do any work. When I meet a new daygamer on the street (usually they approach me), I used to like to watch them approach a few times before exchanging numbers – I didn’t realize how common it is for people to read a little bit about daygame and claim to be good at it, and then they are terrified to run up to a 6.5 and tell her she has interesting shoes to even warm up. It’s unfortunate how effective this filter is, but it works.
Thank you ladies for being the filter that helps us men test other men. We appreciate it.
To a beginner it may sound heartless:
“Runner – you were a beginner once too! Didn’t anyone take a chance on you?”
No, actually. I did daygame alone for the better part of a year. I knew Nash from doing nightgame, and he started doing daygame when I was originally going to learn daygame (but then I got a girlfriend). Since he lived in a different city and was ahead of me on the daygame learning curve, my only companion was a What’sApp chat with him where I recorded a note for each approach I did. It was just enough of a dopamine hit to keep me going.
After a few months of doing daygame, I met Cova at a lair meetup and he was probably the best daygamer I knew of at the time in NYC, and he asked me how long I had been daygaming. I was only a few months in and I think I had gone on my first date from daygame at the time or was just about to, and he just sort of disappeared and ignored me. 8 months later we met up to do some approaching and he didn’t remember me, and encouraged me to approach a girl in a store, and I ended up seducing her on the first date and dating her for a month or so. Cova is a bit of a dick, the kind of guy that gets a charge out of approaching a girl you want to approach (bad form for a wingman), but he made me earn the right to be a wing, and that was the right challenge for me, and probably for him as well. We still hang out from time to time, and he challenges me a little and I respect him for it.
Sometime last year, I was approached by a fellow I call Blackbeard (he does not have an online identity but he reads Twitter and blogs) one day after I did an approach in Union Square. We talked a little bit and I watched him do some approaches. He had only read Roosh and watched some Torero, and was approaching girls by walking ahead of them and then turning back at a 45 degree angle, not front stopping (that was the first correction). He needed a lot of work, but he did the work. He approaches even more than I do. I suggested he take an improv course and be transparent with the instructors, telling them that he wants to be more expressive. He’s made tremendous progress, and he’s young too, so he’s going to have an interesting life. I’m proud of him, and I trust him.
So a guy that approaches girls can be trustworthy. Are all guys that approach girls trustworthy? No. Are all guys that don’t approach girls untrustworthy? No. Are guys that talk a big game about approaching girls and then don’t untrustworthy? I think so, until proven otherwise. They need to grow up.
However when we have this anonymous network of guys who have developed the skill of approaching women, and we are prevented from sharing openly due to hostility and threats of persecution, trust is important. Approaching is hard to fake. Girls know it and guys who approach know it. It’s a good basic filter.
I’ve updated my blog template to be both more readable, and also to include a sidebar of people that I have met in daygame that I trust – guys that actually approach, and have taught me things and that I have met in person.
People who are doing events will monitor newcomers for negative and positive traits and guys […] who can’t handle it will not be invited into the higher tiers of things.
…and this applies to daygame as well. Some guy lied about his skill level to Mr.V and met up with him and later that day me and Cova joined them in Soho in NYC. He was dressed poorly, telling us who to approach (“I’m spotting targets for you guys!”), clearly had not done more than 10 approaches but had read a blog once about daygame. I think after that Mr.V said to me his new policy is “no new friends.”
However, I encountered Breeze (who opened a girl I was about to open) and then proceeded to get her number. I didn’t approach him, but I made a mental note of what he looked like, and then a week later he lost a girl to Mr.V (Crayon), but came and approached him afterward and I recognized him from earlier. He was like “Oh I follow Runner, Nash, RoyWalker” and it was amusing to meet him that way. He had such a good vibe and I had already seen him approach, so it wasn’t long before he was added to the trusted network.
There have also been questions about some people’s true stats recently – and some people claiming to do daygame but also mixing in night game, gutter game, online game, and there are rumors of even some guys using seeking arrangement and calling it game. I guess I’m more of a daygame purist at this point (having done nightgame and online game before deciding to do daygame). I’m not a fan of online game, and I openly look down on seeking arrangement. If it helps them achieve their goals, then OK, but as soon as people start to make claims about their stats it affects their credibility. Egos are funny things, and sometimes people need to pump their stats to feel good about themselves or to tell themselves they are better than others. There is no surer sign that someone is unimportant and should be ignored. This is why we can’t have nice things. There is a lot of this kind of fronting on twitter – selling courses, e-books, and building followers, and people will sometimes take this fakery at face value. Some might say they do damage to the community – teaching vulnerable young guys the wrong lessons and making them even more bitter when results don’t appear. That may be true. However, the trusted network roots out these kind of behaviors quickly and ruthlessly, and appropriately, the fake people tend fizzle out over time:
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Naturally, the fake guys are quietly excluded from the trusted network.
In German there is a word männerbund, which can be translated as ‘male bond’ or possibly ‘masculine society’ (according to some guy on reddit), but I like to think of it as a male social hierarchy where guys are strongly collaborative with each other – the best example would be a group of guys in a military unit – they depend on each other in life and death situations and that forms a bond that can (and usually does) last for life.
As daygamers, we are doing guerrilla warfare against silly social rules put in place by Hollywood and listening logically to girls talk about how they want a man to approach them (they know it when they feel it but the female ability to actually articulate it properly is ultra rare – yet every girl thinks she is that ultra rare girl that can articulate it and it must be true for all women – the paradox of solipsism). This guerrilla warfare bonds us daygamers together like a military unit. We can’t talk about it openly, but we have to execute to get results.
Sports teams are a proxy for this, which reminds me of one of my favorite twitter aphorisms recently:
Some of you didn’t play sports growing up and it shows.
-Many Retweets on Twitter, no idea on the original source
Daygame wings can’t do the work for you, and with a nod to my running sport background, it’s not a team relay either. It’s a solo sport and winging is just about vibe maintenance and keeping each others vibe warm between approaches. Keeping morale up between waves of rejection. However, when you have a trusted network, you get more than that. You get genuine encouragement to keep going. Others get excited for your successes and you get excited for theirs. You step out and even though you are alone, you feel like they have your back. Your wings are with you in spirit. You belong. You’re in the tribe, absorbing the knowledge of the tribe, helping to advance the tribe. This is a good thing. Trusted networks are the real value of daygame.
In a trusted network, higher level opportunities become possible. Depending on who is in your network, you can get access to social circles, employment opportunities, mentoring, and business deals because people trust you and like you. In my opinion, this is way more valuable than selling your ebook on how to approach girls for $17, but maybe that’s because I have a good network.
To get in the trusted network you have to go through the trials of women. Getting over approach anxiety. Getting in good enough shape and dressing well enough to have a chance. Improving your frame and learning to lead and seduce. Managing to keep a good vibe throughout all the ups and downs, and numerous other self improvements that are different for each man. Become a high value guy and join the club.
Daygame is Freedom or What’s Wrong with Online Game
Lately I consider myself something of a daygame purist. I just want to do daygame and avoid nightgame and online game because I don’t enjoy them or think they are a good use of my time.
I’ve done nightgame, I’ve done online game, I’ve had my longest relationship with a girl from my social circle, and I’ve spent the last few years doing daygame. Daygame is my favorite, it has made me a better man and I am approaching satisfaction with the quality and results I am getting from it.
Years ago, I remember when I first read “The Game” and went out to some bars and clubs during the next few weekends, did some approaches, and made out with a nice blonde nurse. I thought I had solved women. She texted me back once and then ghosted me. Oops.
Then there was a period of time where I was going out to nightgame 7 days a week. I was dating some pretty awesome girls that I met at bars and clubs. There were 2 girls I met during this time that I dated for a few months, and looking back, they were pretty great girls and if I was more mature, maybe they would be my wife right now. Instead I wanted to go out and experience the excitement of nightlife. The possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences made those options less attractive. I had some really good nights and weeks even where I was getting the signals that I was ‘top guy.’ Brief episodes, but it was something. Eventually I got tired of going out, drinking, talking to girls – it became a chore. I just didn’t enjoy night game anymore.
My longest relationship was a girl I met through my social circle. We started talking about a topic and she was fascinated by me and pursued me. There was a jealousy plotline during the seduction and everything. I broke up with her because she didn’t ever want kids (which to me was a dealbreaker) and I was moving to New York – a city filled with beautiful women, so I was thinking “I’ll just find another one.” Again, the the possibility of more experiences or ‘getting a better relationship deal’ made that relationship option less attractive.
New York City is a more competitive dating environment that where I was coming from, so I spent a bit of time regretting breaking up with my ex-girlfriend – she’s smoking hot and was really into me. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if she came with me and I was somehow able to convince her to have kids – too late now, she’s gone and married another guy, someone she can not have kids with.
However, shortly after my arrival in New York City I thought Tinder was amazing. Then they (Tinder) kept dicking around with the algorithms and extorting money from men, the women became flakier and flakier, more Venmo and IG handles appearing in their profiles. At some point it stopped working for me – I had months long dry spells, and occasionally got lucky, but I felt like I was at the mercy of the algorithm. I never felt like the possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences was in my power, online game felt like some sort of degenerate gamble – gamble is the right word because of the unknown algorithmic nature behind how people are displayed and how randomly they would match with you, and what are the odds of it being a bot. Hope is not a strategy. No one is coming to save you.
So being the renegade that I am, I started doing daygame. It was hard at first, but I felt backed into a corner by online game and my heart wasn’t in nightgame anymore. The demons were telling me that daygame was my only option. The only way out is through.
I think I got lucky my first month, I started in August and fashion week in NYC happens in early September each year. I got a number from a 19 year old fashion model that “Vogue” magazine called the “it” girl of the year. I teased her about something relating to robots taking over the world and she laughed and I got her number. I texted her and she gave me a reply – a single laughing emoji, and then I never heard from her again. However, it was just the mere hint of a top guy signal, a flake of gold proving out the mine, and that convinced me I was on the right track. Quality seemed obtainable and within my reach now. I redoubled my efforts.
You can read some of my other posts for how long it took me to brute force the learning curve for daygame (spoiler: it was an average of 5 approaches a day for a few years), and fast forward to the present day where I am dating two girls I met on the street 6-8 weeks ago. I am still going out and approaching because of the possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences. Consistently approaching also helps episodes of being ‘top guy’ last for months at a time. I’m looking for a girl that makes me not want to go out and approach other girls, i.e. she compares favorably to going out and approaching. Perhaps such a superb woman does not exist. Perhaps we as men always want some new strange. If so, I may never stop searching for her. I owe it to myself to try anyway. Daygame makes that possible.
Subsequently, as I have gotten better at daygame, a local NYC daygamer @covadg regularly tries to drag me out to some bar or club for some nightgame. I have gone several times, and each time I have been disappointed with the quality of girls in bars. I’d rather be out on the street. The possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences makes the girls in the bar/club less attractive than what I can meet on the street. I just didn’t feel like it was a good use of my time.
Daygame gives you immediate feedback and has a tight feedback loop. You learn a lot in just a few minutes of conversation with a girl you are attracted to – it is good for quality, and you may encounter quantity during the process too. If you slum it in daygame, and date a girl below the standard of what you want, the street will compare favorably and you will go back out and approach and improve naturally.
Nightgame has similarly immediate feedback, and you can seduce faster (same night), but the quality is often lower. Fine if you want to put numbers up on the board, but quantity is not quality. It is possible to slum it for a night or for a short period of time. The repetition of going to the bar/club and accepting the limitations of the environment can cause a pattern of slumming it and prevent you from improving.
Quantity has a quality all its own.
Joseph Stalin (discussing Russian soldiers vs German troops in WWII)
Online game is so passive and algorithmic based, the girls are liking or rejecting you initially based on your picture and a blurb of text.
You can get some quantity and maybe quality online, but you have no control over how much or how often. It’s a degenerate gamble. You have no guarantee of more experiences or higher quality experiences if you continue. Online can also breed laziness and I know a number of guys who are most definitely slumming it by taking whatever they are given by the great algorithmic matching engine, and that is why they don’t improve.
The feedback is arbitrary and the display of potential matches is controlled by an algorithm. It’s tyranny.
Definition of Tyranny: Cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.
I’m an American. Our forefathers didn’t accept tyranny. They took action and started a war with England over a 2% tax and declared independence shortly thereafter:
Don’t accept tyranny. Daygame is freedom from Tyranny. Follow the LondonDaygame Model if you love quality, choice, and freedom (and yes, I get the irony of American style freedoms granted by a model named after London, England). Or do nightgame if you agree with Stalin that quantity is a quality of sorts and/or you find it to be enjoyable or a good use of your time or you eagerly accept the tyranny of bouncers at the door of your favorite establishment. Do online game as a last resort – a subsistence ration in a Stockholm prison of your own choosing – a welfare distribution of sex for when you’re down and out.
To address the inevitable pearl clutching types who will no doubt feel personally attacked that I am hating on the use of online game. You don’t have to care. Keep slumming it. I wrote this for my own amusement, I don’t care what you or anyone does. Do online game if you want. I don’t care. Just don’t tell me how awesome it is – I don’t believe you.
You’re free to slum it any way you like and whenever you want, you don’t need to justify it to anyone. However, I have zero sympathy for guys who aren’t satisfied with the quality they get online or at night. If they are, great!
And your point is…?
If you slum it in daygame, the opportunities available on the street will force you to approach something you want more. If you slum it in nightgame, well, you’re making the best of a situation with some limitations and conditions (spatial, temporal, social, logistical, financial), but it’s just for a night or a short period of time until you go out again and try with a different set of limitations and conditions. If you do online game, you are almost certainly slumming it. This is why daygame makes us better men, it holds us to a higher standard of the women we choose (call it the standard of freedom), and naturally forces us to not settle or slum it with girls we will have sex with but wish were better in some ways.
Update 2/2/2020
After another day of thinking about it I had a few more thoughts to add:
Women rarely know what they are attracted to outright, and it also depends on their moods. With online game, you’re giving girls too much credit for knowing what they want, most of them don’t have any clue so they’re gonna guess they want to guy between a certain age of a certain height and they may or may not be attracted to him – his vibe and dominance and how he is in person will matter significantly, as will her mood in the moment.
When you’re on the street, approaching her one on one, you have a chance of being the most interesting guy in her world – you’re not competing with anyone else directly in that moment if she’s open to meeting someone. When you are in a bar or a club, you have a chance to be the most interesting guy in the room, which might go well for you, since you are only competing against other guys in the room. When you are online, you have a chance to be the most interesting man in her queue – which for any girl online is hundreds.
And actually, since a large percentage of girls in major cities are online, even in daygame and at bars and clubs you are competing with her online queue. I have no data to support this theory but I suspect that 6s and 7s are more likely to invest in online dating than 8s and 9s, who don’t need to (unless they have some psychological deficiency that makes them need more attention and validation). There are some hot girls online, but some are definitely not online, and those hot ‘offline’ girls are actually more receptive to your approach because you are not having to compete with their queue. I think quality online is lower than nightgame which is itself lower than daygame because of a law similar to supply and demand.
Daygame generally has a higher yield of quality when you get to a certain skill level, and I think that efficiency appeals to guys on the wrong side of about 28 or so with some online game and nightgame experience – they are old enough to recognize the folly of youth and appreciate that time is valuable and quality is important.
Bond Analogy
ROI is easy to compute in dollars, and if all notches were equal it would be simple to compare daygame, nightgame and online game. But for most men, the quality of women matters, analogous to bond ratings:
This will only make sense if you understand basic finance – apologies to the 80% of you for whom this will whoosh over your head
With limited capital, time and attention to invest, most of what you sift through in online game is going to be speculative subprime grade. You can still get a return with online game, just like you can still get a return in subprime bonds, but you may not want to hold them long term as they may end up worthless. Nightgame can land you more medium grade, better quality, but still with some risk of default. Daygame is looking for younger hotter tighter, the bond world equivalent of deals in AAA Prime bonds, most of which are fairly priced, but occasionally you’ll find a deal and it may be a good investment. Diversify your portfolio. If a guy does only online game, or only night game, he has a concentrated portfolio risk in risky assets with a higher chance of default and it is unlikely he has much experience with younger hotter tighter AAA Bonds or ability to invest in them or even recognize deals when they appear. If he only does daygame, he is concentrating his risk in higher quality bonds – which is admittedly conservative. As people age they need to take less portfolio risk and become more conservative, focus on preserving investment capital and investing in higher quality bonds. Another reason that Daygame often seems to seem like a good idea when guys hit about 28. Also could be the reason that guys like Krauser and Roosh with a lot of experience are only looking for AAA YHT girls for wives and making babies – who knows if they’ll find it; AAA guys attract AAA girls.
