Daygame is Freedom or What’s Wrong with Online Game

Lately I consider myself something of a daygame purist. I just want to do daygame and avoid nightgame and online game because I don’t enjoy them or think they are a good use of my time.

I’ve done nightgame, I’ve done online game, I’ve had my longest relationship with a girl from my social circle, and I’ve spent the last few years doing daygame. Daygame is my favorite, it has made me a better man and I am approaching satisfaction with the quality and results I am getting from it.

Years ago, I remember when I first read “The Game” and went out to some bars and clubs during the next few weekends, did some approaches, and made out with a nice blonde nurse. I thought I had solved women. She texted me back once and then ghosted me. Oops.

Then there was a period of time where I was going out to nightgame 7 days a week. I was dating some pretty awesome girls that I met at bars and clubs. There were 2 girls I met during this time that I dated for a few months, and looking back, they were pretty great girls and if I was more mature, maybe they would be my wife right now. Instead I wanted to go out and experience the excitement of nightlife. The possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences made those options less attractive. I had some really good nights and weeks even where I was getting the signals that I was ‘top guy.’ Brief episodes, but it was something. Eventually I got tired of going out, drinking, talking to girls – it became a chore. I just didn’t enjoy night game anymore.

My longest relationship was a girl I met through my social circle. We started talking about a topic and she was fascinated by me and pursued me. There was a jealousy plotline during the seduction and everything. I broke up with her because she didn’t ever want kids (which to me was a dealbreaker) and I was moving to New York – a city filled with beautiful women, so I was thinking “I’ll just find another one.” Again, the the possibility of more experiences or ‘getting a better relationship deal’ made that relationship option less attractive.

New York City is a more competitive dating environment that where I was coming from, so I spent a bit of time regretting breaking up with my ex-girlfriend – she’s smoking hot and was really into me. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if she came with me and I was somehow able to convince her to have kids – too late now, she’s gone and married another guy, someone she can not have kids with.

However, shortly after my arrival in New York City I thought Tinder was amazing. Then they (Tinder) kept dicking around with the algorithms and extorting money from men, the women became flakier and flakier, more Venmo and IG handles appearing in their profiles. At some point it stopped working for me – I had months long dry spells, and occasionally got lucky, but I felt like I was at the mercy of the algorithm. I never felt like the possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences was in my power, online game felt like some sort of degenerate gamble – gamble is the right word because of the unknown algorithmic nature behind how people are displayed and how randomly they would match with you, and what are the odds of it being a bot. Hope is not a strategy. No one is coming to save you.

So being the renegade that I am, I started doing daygame. It was hard at first, but I felt backed into a corner by online game and my heart wasn’t in nightgame anymore. The demons were telling me that daygame was my only option. The only way out is through.

I think I got lucky my first month, I started in August and fashion week in NYC happens in early September each year. I got a number from a 19 year old fashion model that “Vogue” magazine called the “it” girl of the year. I teased her about something relating to robots taking over the world and she laughed and I got her number. I texted her and she gave me a reply – a single laughing emoji, and then I never heard from her again. However, it was just the mere hint of a top guy signal, a flake of gold proving out the mine, and that convinced me I was on the right track. Quality seemed obtainable and within my reach now. I redoubled my efforts.

You can read some of my other posts for how long it took me to brute force the learning curve for daygame (spoiler: it was an average of 5 approaches a day for a few years), and fast forward to the present day where I am dating two girls I met on the street 6-8 weeks ago. I am still going out and approaching because of the possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences. Consistently approaching also helps episodes of being ‘top guy’ last for months at a time. I’m looking for a girl that makes me not want to go out and approach other girls, i.e. she compares favorably to going out and approaching. Perhaps such a superb woman does not exist. Perhaps we as men always want some new strange. If so, I may never stop searching for her. I owe it to myself to try anyway. Daygame makes that possible.

Subsequently, as I have gotten better at daygame, a local NYC daygamer @covadg regularly tries to drag me out to some bar or club for some nightgame. I have gone several times, and each time I have been disappointed with the quality of girls in bars. I’d rather be out on the street. The possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences makes the girls in the bar/club less attractive than what I can meet on the street. I just didn’t feel like it was a good use of my time.

Daygame gives you immediate feedback and has a tight feedback loop. You learn a lot in just a few minutes of conversation with a girl you are attracted to – it is good for quality, and you may encounter quantity during the process too. If you slum it in daygame, and date a girl below the standard of what you want, the street will compare favorably and you will go back out and approach and improve naturally.

Nightgame has similarly immediate feedback, and you can seduce faster (same night), but the quality is often lower. Fine if you want to put numbers up on the board, but quantity is not quality. It is possible to slum it for a night or for a short period of time. The repetition of going to the bar/club and accepting the limitations of the environment can cause a pattern of slumming it and prevent you from improving.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

Joseph Stalin (discussing Russian soldiers vs German troops in WWII)

Online game is so passive and algorithmic based, the girls are liking or rejecting you initially based on your picture and a blurb of text.

You can get some quantity and maybe quality online, but you have no control over how much or how often. It’s a degenerate gamble. You have no guarantee of more experiences or higher quality experiences if you continue. Online can also breed laziness and I know a number of guys who are most definitely slumming it by taking whatever they are given by the great algorithmic matching engine, and that is why they don’t improve.

The feedback is arbitrary and the display of potential matches is controlled by an algorithm. It’s tyranny.

Definition of Tyranny: Cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.

I’m an American. Our forefathers didn’t accept tyranny. They took action and started a war with England over a 2% tax and declared independence shortly thereafter:

Don’t accept tyranny. Daygame is freedom from Tyranny. Follow the London Daygame Model if you love quality, choice, and freedom (and yes, I get the irony of American style freedoms granted by a model named after London, England). Or do nightgame if you agree with Stalin that quantity is a quality of sorts and/or you find it to be enjoyable or a good use of your time or you eagerly accept the tyranny of bouncers at the door of your favorite establishment. Do online game as a last resort – a subsistence ration in a Stockholm prison of your own choosing – a welfare distribution of sex for when you’re down and out.

To address the inevitable pearl clutching types who will no doubt feel personally attacked that I am hating on the use of online game. You don’t have to care. Keep slumming it. I wrote this for my own amusement, I don’t care what you or anyone does. Do online game if you want. I don’t care. Just don’t tell me how awesome it is – I don’t believe you.

You’re free to slum it any way you like and whenever you want, you don’t need to justify it to anyone. However, I have zero sympathy for guys who aren’t satisfied with the quality they get online or at night. If they are, great!

And your point is…?

If you slum it in daygame, the opportunities available on the street will force you to approach something you want more. If you slum it in nightgame, well, you’re making the best of a situation with some limitations and conditions (spatial, temporal, social, logistical, financial), but it’s just for a night or a short period of time until you go out again and try with a different set of limitations and conditions. If you do online game, you are almost certainly slumming it. This is why daygame makes us better men, it holds us to a higher standard of the women we choose (call it the standard of freedom), and naturally forces us to not settle or slum it with girls we will have sex with but wish were better in some ways.

Update 2/2/2020

After another day of thinking about it I had a few more thoughts to add:

Women rarely know what they are attracted to outright, and it also depends on their moods. With online game, you’re giving girls too much credit for knowing what they want, most of them don’t have any clue so they’re gonna guess they want to guy between a certain age of a certain height and they may or may not be attracted to him – his vibe and dominance and how he is in person will matter significantly, as will her mood in the moment.

When you’re on the street, approaching her one on one, you have a chance of being the most interesting guy in her world – you’re not competing with anyone else directly in that moment if she’s open to meeting someone. When you are in a bar or a club, you have a chance to be the most interesting guy in the room, which might go well for you, since you are only competing against other guys in the room. When you are online, you have a chance to be the most interesting man in her queue – which for any girl online is hundreds.

And actually, since a large percentage of girls in major cities are online, even in daygame and at bars and clubs you are competing with her online queue. I have no data to support this theory but I suspect that 6s and 7s are more likely to invest in online dating than 8s and 9s, who don’t need to (unless they have some psychological deficiency that makes them need more attention and validation). There are some hot girls online, but some are definitely not online, and those hot ‘offline’ girls are actually more receptive to your approach because you are not having to compete with their queue. I think quality online is lower than nightgame which is itself lower than daygame because of a law similar to supply and demand.

Daygame generally has a higher yield of quality when you get to a certain skill level, and I think that efficiency appeals to guys on the wrong side of about 28 or so with some online game and nightgame experience – they are old enough to recognize the folly of youth and appreciate that time is valuable and quality is important.

Bond Analogy

ROI is easy to compute in dollars, and if all notches were equal it would be simple to compare daygame, nightgame and online game. But for most men, the quality of women matters, analogous to bond ratings:

This will only make sense if you understand basic finance – apologies to the 80% of you for whom this will whoosh over your head

With limited capital, time and attention to invest, most of what you sift through in online game is going to be speculative subprime grade. You can still get a return with online game, just like you can still get a return in subprime bonds, but you may not want to hold them long term as they may end up worthless. Nightgame can land you more medium grade, better quality, but still with some risk of default. Daygame is looking for younger hotter tighter, the bond world equivalent of deals in AAA Prime bonds, most of which are fairly priced, but occasionally you’ll find a deal and it may be a good investment. Diversify your portfolio. If a guy does only online game, or only night game, he has a concentrated portfolio risk in risky assets with a higher chance of default and it is unlikely he has much experience with younger hotter tighter AAA Bonds or ability to invest in them or even recognize deals when they appear. If he only does daygame, he is concentrating his risk in higher quality bonds – which is admittedly conservative. As people age they need to take less portfolio risk and become more conservative, focus on preserving investment capital and investing in higher quality bonds. Another reason that Daygame often seems to seem like a good idea when guys hit about 28. Also could be the reason that guys like Krauser and Roosh with a lot of experience are only looking for AAA YHT girls for wives and making babies – who knows if they’ll find it; AAA guys attract AAA girls.

5 Replies to “Daygame is Freedom or What’s Wrong with Online Game”

  1. Mr Runner. I’ve given you some side-comments that I think this is a really good piece of writing. I think you make some unique points, and you also bring some passion to this piece that I personally find inspiring. Well done.

    As for “daygame has higher quality” I think that is likely true (as most almost every girl touches the street at some point in her day… Nightgame/Online can’t touch that).

    If you want high quality girls, you can find them as they go about their day (along with every other kind of girl).

    > Daygame gives you immediate feedback and has a tight feedback loop.

    But I think THIS POINT ^ is was more important to me as I got on my feet in game.

    It was the QUANTITY. I’m not disagreeing with you about quality, but I think Daygame is better for both quantity and quality. I emphasize quantity.

    In your lines about how nightgame left you disappointed as to the quality of the girls – I agree 100%. But part of that is that a given venue has a limited number of girls. Whereas a major street at a decent time of day has a steady stream of lovely girls, hour after hour, fresh girls… many of them alone.

    (Many of them alone… that matters too!)

    I got good at Daygame because of VOLUME there. Yes, the best quality of my life. Certainly. 1000% better than Nightgame/Online. But more so, I had a chance to iterate and learn at a rate that never could have happened in Nightgame/Online.

    > tight feedback loop

    Yes. Face to face. Real social interactions. Real social training. High volume of girls. And… a very TIGHT FEEDBACK LOOP so you can learn/test/grow quickly.

    > You can get some quantity and maybe quality online, but you have no controls over how much or how often.
    > Do online game as a last resort – a subsistence ration in a Stockholm prison of your own choosing – a welfare distribution of sex for when you’re down and out.
    > Do online game if you want. I don’t care. Just don’t tell me how awesome it is – I don’t believe you.

    Savage. And very true. Nailing it.

    Now… I will easily point to Magnum as a guy that does great online… but not much on “SWIPE” based apps, more so on online dating where he can send messages. That sending messages directly allows him to get closer to cold approach. Much better. And I think Magnum’s online game results show that to be true.

  2. > The possibility of more and/or higher quality experiences makes the girls in the bar/club less attractive than what I can meet on the street. I just didn’t feel like it was a good use of my time.

    Here is a different take on this point:

    On my first trips to Japan (and even back at home, but more so on daygame trips), I was drinking a lot, doing some nightgame + daygame. I had one day2 lay, and a handful of makeouts… but not much more than that.

    But every trip, I would drink less, do less nightgame, and save my energy for the streets. The streets had more volume, better quality… and I wanted to be on my game for that opportunity.

    RELATED:

    “Vibe begins the night before. Vibe is the x-factor of game. Being a “cool guy.” You bring your vibe into your set. Vibe is ‘get a good nights sleep,’ ‘be reasonably healthy,’ ‘have your life moving in the right direction.’ There is no magic to it.”
    — Krauser

    Vibe begins the night before. It’s true. And when I really got this – and knew that daygame was where my real opportunities were – I basically quit nightgame entirely, got more sleep, was hungover much less often, and put all my energy into the street, and my results took off.

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