So Roosh became a born again Christian. I was a bit surprised when it happened. I’ve watched maybe 2 or 3 of his videos. Felt mostly indifferent. Then I started to connect some dots.
I have a few other friends who have studied game (they are offline – as in not on twitter – but they might read my blog) who have run the full gauntlet from being filthy players, knocking up girls and then hoping they get abortions (they did), to now being extremely christian, to the point of doing what is known as christian dating, which I must admit I don’t really understand. Their journey has been VERY different than mine, and probably will continue to be so going forward. A conversation with one of them earlier this evening inspired this.
I was raised and attended a christian church as a child and a teenager, but my early experience with church was mainly exposure to what is now commonly called virtue signalling. I equated virtue signalling with “church” like many in my generation, and was repulsed so thoroughly that I stopped going as soon as I was able. Called myself an atheist for many years – only recently I realized this was some sort of reverse signalling of my rejection of virtue signalling. Irony.
This is a daygame blog, why are we here? With a nod to the great prophet “Mystery” a pattern emerged over time: I got numbers from some girls in New York on Sundays, on their way to or from church (churches would have services multiple times during the day in NYC). It was a very international mix, from memory: Spanish, Ukrainian, Russian, Brazilian, Romanian, German, South African, and naturally a few Americans. There was a fantastic Ukrainian girl I met a few times and she was always dressed like a biker (on her way to church!) and she was always happy to see me, but always had a boyfriend (I asked with a shameless grin and she shamelessly grinned right back). Another one gave me some bread she had just baked with the old church ladies. A strange offering, but I ate it and it was delicious. I don’t think I closed any of the church girls. I got one out on a date, did not close.
I think daygame would be a superior way to meet girls who are christian if I were looking for that, but I don’t think I am at this time. Even though I consider myself lightly christian and not an atheist anymore, I suspect I don’t quite fit with their definition and expectations of what a christian guy should be like, and I’m not motivated to adapt to it. I don’t want to virtue signal to please girls, which is what it would feel like to me aka “nice guy” behavior. The church teaches this “anti-game” behavior, which is a real tragedy. I’m also still enjoying the benefits of sin and I haven’t yet peaked thus I am not yet ready to seek salvation. My suggestion for christian guys looking for christian girls, is that they should do daygame all day Sunday. The good Lord would be pleased by your approaches and will bless you with reduced approach anxiety as you are filled with the holy spirit.
It is also worth mentioning that in my experience there are some girls that are seriously Christian and play by the rules of christian dating (which I don’t get at all – we filter each other out quickly), and then there are a significant number of girls that say they are Christian, but really just use the church as a vessel for virtue signalling (these signalling types likely exist in other major world religions, and modern Los Angeles Buddhist yoga girls might also fall into this category). Those signalling girls are the girls that respond just fine to game; they are making an effort to signal that they are good girls, whether or not that is actually true. Nassim Taleb calls this cheap signalling.
The main reason for my personal shift back from the brink of atheism was just the realization of how much of an epic fail the Christian church in particular has been in recent history. Traditional values and roles for men and women were passed down by a tradition, and that tradition was typically a church (also applies roughly to Judaism and Islam). At this moment in time, Islam seems to do a pretty good job of teaching the roles of men and women in current society. I pulled a Saudi girl a few years back (the sex was fantastic, but I didn’t keep in contact with her because I was mildly concerned she would be stoned if her father discovered the messages between us – I’m serious, having her blood on my hands would feel shittier than not texting her back). For Christianity in the last 60+ years, values and gender roles were not properly transferred between generations and as a result more recent generations have had to figure out dating and game for ourselves. The church failed to uphold the traditions (e.g. defend against feminism), and sold out to virtue signalling. Is virtue signalling the result of feminist doctrine adulterating the church? The Christian church is broken. All the clergy and well meaning but horribly inept church ladies, and edgy “youth pastor” creeps and nice guy dads of the church couldn’t put humpty dumpty back together again. They are a useless congregation and not people I want to influence myself or an eventual wife and family.
The modern church has virtue signaling as the dominant theme (in my limited observation) and I don’t have enough data on if or how families form in church – from what I can tell, people meet outside of church and then form a family and then go shopping for a church for virtue signalling community and to teach their kids to virtue signal. That sounds pretty jaded. If you know of churches that are not like that, please try and sell me on it. I’m VERY skeptical, but I will listen.
What it would take for me to go full christian would be a church that wasn’t run by a wimp. That’s a tall order. So many priests are women (immediate fail), and the catholic church has been thoroughly corrupted financially and morally and there are a number of sketchy priests. The Mormons do seem to teach gender roles and motherhood (lots of urban lawyer type women have admitted guilty pleasures of following Mormon mommy blogs), but the Mormon guys I met all had a used car salesman vibe where their sales training outweighed their charisma, so it frequently comes across like a pyramid scheme – same for Jehovah’s witnesses. The Mormons probably deserved to be trolled by the guy in Kinderhook.
I think I would actually like to go back to a church, if it were full of a bunch of guys that had their lives together, and knew how to lead women, their women knew how to follow, and they brought their families and believed similar things. Almost sounds like a proper church. Sometimes this fantasy church would read relevant phrases from the original Gospel, known as the Bible, but other forms of gospel (e.g. the Mystery method) could be sprinkled in the odd sermon.
It would be a new reformation of the church. I don’t like using the term “red pill” but I’ll use it for lack of a better umbrella term. A red pill reformation is coming. Someone is going to do it. Maybe multiple people will try it. Maybe someone already did and not many people know about it because failure is an orphan. I don’t think Roosh has quite enough charisma to succeed, though he may try, and to be fair, he’s got way more charisma than that guy Rollo. It could also just be a search problem, and there may well already be small religious groups doing exactly this. Don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
Finally, a reformation could be the wrong way to think about it, a red pill reformation could also just be Christianity dying with a whimper and Pre-Christian religions rise again, more along the lines of a bronze age something or other (I read his book, and it didn’t really grab me), taking us back to aesthetics and nature and might-makes-right and a more primitive pagan ritualistic paradigm. Perhaps civilization is an experiment that is soon due to end and we will revert to more primitive warlord and tribal cultures. Something will form, I don’t know what it is yet, but I’m watching for it.
By this point, I’ve probably managed to offend anyone who has any semblance of religion, especially people who ascribe to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or paganism, with a special twist of the knife to Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Good. Maybe the Atheists are amused anyway.
2 more loosely related thoughts that didn’t fit with the flow of my reformation idea above:
Christian wives are not a magical panacea that solve all red pill complaints. I was just at the DMV last week (where I got a girl’s number), and I was talking to an older guy who told me his sob story of his first wife. He got a million dollar settlement from a car accident, and put it in their joint account, and she donated all of it to the church. Dumb woman for virtue signalling, dumb man for not controlling his finances better. Poor guy. He divorced her and married again and seemed to do better the second time around.
There are a lot of good platitudes in the bible, and for some reason, many guys want to just follow truthy sounding platitudes on twitter, and “will not explain” makes me laugh each time I see it. Women do this too on Instagram with images that say “Live, Laugh, Love” in purple fonts. I try to have the discipline to block it when I encounter it on most platforms. But I do wonder if someone were to try and stealthily adapt bible quotes and feed it to these people, would it work? If anyone knows of an attempt, I’d like to hear about it. Not that I would do it, but I could envision some “youth pastor” using scammy twitter promotion harvesting tactics to promote “the word.”
27 “Look,” says the Teacher, “this is what I have discovered:”
“Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things—Ecclesiastes 7
28 while I was still searching
but not finding—
I found one upright man among a thousand,
but not one upright woman among them all.
29 This only have I found:
God created mankind upright,
but they have gone in search of many schemes.”