Mistakes Nice Guys Make and How to Fix Them

I started recording audio of my sets last month. I use the Olympus VP-10, it cost $80 but was worth it. The quality is good, the battery life is long, and it is USB so it’s easy to transfer to my computer. I use quicktime to trim audio files down to my approaches. It’s a little cringe sometimes to hear the mistakes you make in set, but it gives you more feedback which speeds up the learning process. I should have done it sooner.

Anyway, as I was listening to my sets, and a few instadates, sometimes sharing them with wings for their feedback (and roasting), a number of both tiny and glaring nice guy behaviors started to appear as patterns, reminding me of one of the fundamental mantras of game:

Patterns emerge over time.

Mystery

Nice guy behaviors can be more articulately defined as polite yet undeserved pedestalization taught by society – parents who mean well, hollywood, bad advice from girls, etc.

The opposite of nice guy behavior is push-pull behavior. You’re not flat and boring, you’re shifting sands, keeping her on her toes. This gets her attention. She notices. She may start to feel attraction.

I’m just going to rattle off my list that I’ve been compiling for a few weeks now.

  • Saying “sorry” upon stopping her or anything that implies her time is worth something, e.g. Mr. V’s “really quickly” also has this problem
  • Saying “wow” instead of “ok” or “fair enough” when she tells you something. You don’t have to be so easily impressed. Or so reactive. You stopped her, remember?
  • Not teasing properly, and just complimenting her. You have to take back the compliment or you are subtly putting her on a pedestal.
  • Stacking with subsequent compliments is bad. If she doesn’t take the compliment well or corrects you, you must throw it back at her with a push (credit to @Mr.V Daygame) “I’m not French” “Darn, I wanted you to join my pantomime club.”
  • Letting a conversation drone on. “She will let you be as boring as you can accidentally make it.” –@Mr.V Daygame
  • Not setting a sexual enough frame, more bluntly stated as “hiding your dick” and you can spike and compliment her legs, her eyes, her hair, etc.
  • Testing the sexualization by stepping in when the opportunity presents itself. If she unconsciously steps back, that tells you it’s more friendly or she has a bf or isn’t comfortable yet. If she takes it, that’s almost universally a good sign.
  • Not challenging her. No is a good thing to say, but challenging her makes you stand out. The main point is to show you don’t take her too seriously. Taking her at face value – she’s used to that, she expects it. When you challenge her, she notices it because you’re different. It also conveys subtly that you might be equal or higher status which gets her attention.
  • Accepting her frame. I recently lost a frame by talking about fur on a girls coat. “It’s fake fur” was her response. I talked about fake leather in her shoes and accused her of being a vegan. Not bad, but I fell into her frame. She was a Brazilian model I stopped on a cold day, and while she enjoyed my stop and teasing, after I lost the frame, she was suddenly cold enough to have to go on her way.
  • Asking too many questions in a row. Usually girls “have to go” after you start interviewing them. Similarly, if you stack 2-3 times, and she corrects you each time but doesn’t really hook, continuing to try is just cringe.
  • Being too thirsty. Being too eager is often the opposite of hiding your dick. There is a balance. I don’t really have this problem during approaches, but I have been that guy over text, pushing too hard or too soon for a meetup, bending over backwards to schedule something, double texting, texting more lines of text than she does.
  • Accepting bad behavior. Continuing to provide attention after a girl mistreats you (doesn’t agree to date requests for a week or two – no one is that busy, doesn’t show up – explanation or not), etc.
  • Apologizing. Most of the time you don’t need to. Err on the side of not apologizing. “I feel bad for you…” is more effective. On a related note, I find myself correcting girls who over apologize – “you don’t need to apologize for that” (Mr.V, after reading this, said it’s better to say “You gotta stop apologizing” and I agree that is more direct and probably better) and it usually feels like the right thing to do, probably because I get annoyed with people (men and women) who apologize too much.

Overexplaining

Overexplaining was one of the biggest things I was doing wrong. That’s why it gets its own list. I was going into too much depth about my vivid experiences, clever reasoning and imaginative ideas. Being clever and imaginative are great qualities but they need to be streamlined for seduction. You get some points for having it, but too much of anything and she will get bored. @jimmy_jambone in his interview with Rivelino said something like “When on a date the game is 10% and the rest is just being normal.”

  • Explaining your logical and reasoning too much, instead just describe decisions and accomplishments/achievements. Another way of describing this is informative communication vs direct communication. She feels your leadership and success and feels safe when you make decisions and stick to them and communicate it directly (a testament to the strength of your frame). Explaining too much signals investment in converting her, which implies you are not as secure in your frame. It is also informative communication and more simply, she will just get bored. Boring is bad.
  • Overdoing achievements and status and job success can also fall into the trap mentioned immediately above. Girls hate it when a guy won’t shut up about how successful he is. I actually downplay some of my success, and I’m experimenting to figure out the right amount to present so she recognizes I’m successful, but it doesn’t come across as overexplaining to prove it to her.
  • Passion sharing is good. Overexplaining is bad. There is a balance between them. It’s unlikely that a girl is likely to truly share your passion, and if she does, that’s great, but it’s not that valuable in the grand scheme of seduction (often it is conversational quicksand); you should seduce her first and then talk more about that shared passion after consummation. She more than likely wants to know that you have one, and that you’re authentic and not full of shit. Talk about a passion of yours enough, but not so much that it seems like you’re trying to convert her to your pokemon religion, as going too deep into a passion might even come across as autism.
  • Explaining yourself at all. Instead of “I just had to come talk to you” or “I was just curious about you”, I liked it is the only explanation you need. She doesn’t care much for your explanation – she will ask for it if she wants it – usually the only explanation I need to provide comes in the form of “wait, where did you see me”, “back there” *point*.
  • One common overexplanation I would use in set is when I run out of things to say sometimes, I try to buy some more time with an explanation “that’s all I got” which would sometimes create the vacuum and get her talking. Stronger is “that’s all the attention I can give you” or just using silence without calling it out (riskier in a street stop as her momentum might flare up again).

There is a chance that trimming away all of these nice guy behaviors makes you too smooth, or too brutish. That’s probably a good problem to have, I’m not there yet.

By fixing these things and becoming unconsciously competent in them, you are also much less likely to slide back into being a beta if you do get into a relationship. Holding your frame, keeping her on her toes, prevents her from getting bored and keeps the spice going in the relationship and keeps the sexy times rolling.

One other thing that happened as I went through this process of trimming out nice guy behaviors is I became much less tolerable to girls I had been “friends” with. I’ve been friends with a few girls for something like 10 years, they’re too old for me to be interested in dating them. I don’t ask them for advice or even talk much about my life because they get triggered when I talk about dating a girl much younger than them, and if I do anything wrong with regards to seducing a girl and ask for advice (like when I escalated too quickly without pumping the breaks on a nice German girl in July and she promptly left of my apartment) they take the girls side over mine. One of them literally said “you’re an asshole that was just trying to fuck [the German girl]” whereas I had genuinely liked that German girl. Haven’t spoken to that “friend” since. I don’t need that kind of energy in my life. I actually wonder if being friends with girls is just being accepting and tolerant of their bad behavior (most of the time – I am sure there are exceptions, I don’t care to explain further). When I started recognizing it in daygame, I started recognizing it in other areas of my life.

Daygame taught and continues to reinforce all this. Nightgame and online game didn’t. Do daygame. Or don’t. I don’t actually care what you do. No one is coming to save you (my favorite mantra whenever I feel approach anxiety).

Viva daygame.

My Notes on Torero’s ‘What to do on a Date A to Z’ Video (RIP)

So Tom Torero took everything down, theory being that some uncalibrated guy in Scotland got arrested for aggressively hounding girls for their number and got 2 years jail time. WTF UK legal system. Also, why do your judges wear wigs?

These types of unfortunate events are why you must let girls go quickly if they’re not into it, which, in my experience, causes them to crack a smile – they recognize you are calibrated enough to let them go and leave them alone after their subtle IOD (or a not so subtle NYC IOD) and they are able to resume their life, with a touch of validation from your tease/compliment. Maybe next time you or someone else opens them they will give you their number or they’ll be in a talkative mood. Leave the girl better than you found her.

Anyway, Tom (whom Nash has called out as being sneaky) freaked out and took everything down. I have no idea how aggressive the journalists and law enforcement and other totalitarian elements have become in Britain because of Brexit or Bojo, so it may have been the right move for him, but it was a loss for the community.

As I posted recently, his date video (RIP) was really helpful when I was learning. Since it is no longer available, as someone commented, I thought I would post my notes from the video here, which is not far off from a transcript… …formatting isn’t perfect because I have better things to do.

The basic premise is there is a clock. Each number on the clock is either red (pull and escalate) or blue (push and lean back), and you go in sequence. If you have multiple dates, you are winding back the clock sometimes.

1 o’clock  blue

walk to venue 1

  • Let’s go,
  • ask how her day was,
  • tell how your day was,
  • sights on the street.
  • neutral.

2 oclock red

venue 1 well lit, coffee shop, pub, sports bar

spike in venue 1, flirty upon entry

  • o Can I trust you? 
  • o Good team player? 
  • o Good Future wife? 
  • o Give her a job. Find best seat. Best view. Send her off to find seats. 
  • o Text her as she walks off, nice ass.

3oclock blue 

about you and about her, giving rapport 

  • o where she lives, 
  • o where she is working right now, 
  • o what you do, 
  • o a little about who you are, 
  • o where she is from
  • o vibing making her feel comfortable, comfort rapport, not spiking
  • o no comfort quicksand

After about 30 minutes bounce to venue 2.

4 o’clock red

Bounce to Venue 2

  • o Let’s Go
  • o Where are we going
  • o We’re going to Paris
  • o We’re going to Vegas to lose all our money
  • o What are you doing? Just looking at your legs
  • o Close to next venue. Closeish to first venue.
  • o Sofa and couches, 90 degrees or next to each other. 
  • o Cool ambient music. Cocktails. Funky like a coffee shop.

5 o’clock  blue rapport – bigger topics, 

  • o hopes and dreams, 
  • o phobias, 
  • o what she is going to do in the future,  
  • o weird little thing about her, 
  • o what she wanted to be, 
  • o ends with a rooted base where you feel like you are on the same team

6 o’clock red spike – start to move to seduction bubble. Spiking physically

  • o talk fitness, 
  • o tattoos rings, 
  • o touch legs, 
  • o comment about her eyes, legs distracting you, 
  • o do you play a musical instrument, hand sizes,
  • o what is something I’d never guess about you? 
  • o suntans, 
  • o tattoos, 
  • o necklace, earrings, rings,
  • o hair, 
  • o toned body or what you like about her, 
  • o what do you like about me, 
  • o what you find attractive about her. 
  • o You smile a lot, is it possible for you to not smile for 10 seconds?
  • o As you count, you eye fuck. Gets to 3-4 and giggles. Slap wrist. No no no. Try again.
  • o The eye contact and touch creates an intimacy.

7o’clock Blue Chill, give some space, let her spike it up or ask about me, sexy silence.

  • Lean back,
  • Look away,
  • Go to the bathroom,
  • Let her start to invest, or spike it up or ask about me.
  • Leave the sexy silence.
  • Exit at a high point if possible

8 o’clock red

Kiss: matters that you go for it, show intent, and if get knocked back, no butthurt

  • o Vibe should have escalated, flirting and touching.
  • o Floppy test – push her away, bring her in, give her a shoulder rub.
  • o Playing little games
  • o Drive by kisses – Eskimo kisses,
  • o Whisper in her ear, getting really close to her and pulling away.
  • o I’m going to keep trying. I think you’re attractive.
  • o My job to try, your job to resist, I understand, going to keep trying. Going to go to the bathroom, will try again. 
  • o Not a long term provider boyfriend that is going to wait.
  • o You find her physically attractive and are not ashamed to say so.

9 o’clock blue

  • o courage and leading her to bounce home chill out 
  • o out of the bar venue, where are we going?
  • o have something back at your place to encourage her to come
  • o One more drink at mine, music, photos, films
  • o Finish bottle of wine back at mine,
  • o Open door to taxi, 
  • o Make sure to tell her where you are going, not a bar, not disneyland, seed pull
  • o Chill out – not keen or eager or twitchy or eager. Not a big deal

10 o’clock red spike at home

  • o Don’t stay and let vibe crash
  • o Can’t just stand in the kitchen or sit on the sofa and let the vibe crash to bog of comfort and rapport
  • o Shoes off, pour some drinks or make some tea
  • o Take her legs and spike across yours, bring her in. Watch a movie.
  • o Starting to give her a massage, start a kiss a little bit.
  • o On off on off. Push and pull. Calibration is red vs blue
  • o Letting her know back at yours that its on.
  • o If you’re lucky and it’s super on she jumps your bones. 
  • o Usually the girl is more nervous and doesn’t want to appear like she’s too easy. 

She’s going to say things like

  • o “I don’t normally do this”
  • o “Maybe I should go”
  • Good response: Cool, I understand, no worries
  • o take my laptop 
  • o take her by the hand, 
  • o let’s go in here, it’s more comfortable

11 o’clock – blue chill on bed

  • o back off once she’s in the bedroom
  • o often on the bed and she’s on the chair opposite
  • o or he’s leaning back and she’s on the corner of the bed
  • o big mistake would be to go 100 miles an hour like a horny teenager
  • o chill out watch a bit of the movie, drink some wine set the mood, look at some photos
  • o feel like there is a calm atmosphere, come and join me, take her hand and bring her over, or sit her on your lap, sit her next to me,
  • o then a little bit more kissing, on off on off, and reaching the magical 12 o’clock

12 o’clock – red sexy time

self explanatory

  • If she stops the clock at 11:00 or 11:30, set up a date, cooking, DVD, etc.
  • Rollback the clock for additional dates,
  • meet up, go for a walk,
  • following dates is drinks and back to yours.
  • Generally don’t want to wait for 3 dates.

Yup. Europe is Easier.

Yup. Europe is Easier.

So I did a trip to Europe. Up early due to Jet Lag. Figure I’ll write it up.

Purpose of the trip for me was not actually to get +1s (though I was sure going to try) though I think I could have if I had stayed longer in each city. The purpose of this trip was to gain perspective and to compare New York City to several large European cities and see if New York is actually a more challenging city in which to do Daygame. I haven’t met anyone that can provide actual experience or data – but everyone on twitter seems to have an opinion. I had to figure it out for myself. The European daygamers don’t often come to New York – it’s further away, very expensive, and full of feminists.

I have the means and skills to move to Europe (if you can make it in New York you can make it anywhere), so I took this trip pretty seriously as a survey and scouting mission.

Paris

I started in Paris. Paris is a cheap flight hub from New York. My inbound flight was $150. Bargain.

Immediately I noticed I would get more IOIs than in New York. I was walking around the center of the city, high foot traffic areas. Got a few phone numbers, from a French art student and a Spanish economics student. Some of the girls I stopped turned out to be Russian speaking – but they had boyfriends or husbands, as pretty K-selected girls often do.

I had closed a French girl earlier this year in New York, and she lived in Paris, so I thought I would try to visit her. Of course as soon as I booked my tickets, she told me her boyfriend is moving into her apartment the weekend I would arrive. Hmmpf. We met for coffee during my trip and she told me she hooked up with another guy over the summer and then decided to be exclusive to her boyfriend (!). She dropped some validation lines about how she is super happy to see me and how I make her feel good. This just felt like a line for orbiters or chumps, a verbal tip. I must have given her too much attention. Counterpoint: she was talking to me as a lover – telling me about her provider strategy and asking for advice. This is something I read about in Zan Perrion’s Alabaster girl – girls he was a lover to would often ask for advice about their love life while in bed with him (she and I had talked about her relationship with her boyfriend after the last time we had sex). She’s likely more broken than I had realized, not going to spend more time on her, but to keep open the possibility of player pension dividends, I told her to come have fun with me if this relationship thing she’s trying doesn’t work out. She wanted to meet me at a cafe once more on the morning I was going to leave, and I said I would try if I woke up and then didn’t show – I went to a museum instead and posted an instagram story about it. Felt like the right thing to do.

I had also contacted two leads I met in New York who lived in Paris. One of them was in a different country on business, but was very responsive (despite not hearing from me for 2 months) and wanted to meet the next time I was in Paris. The other lead I had taken on a coffee date in New York before she disappeared. This was a Russian speaking girl. She was surprised to hear from me but very down to come out. Hard frame battle ensued over the course of two drinks, she was telling me some things about how motivated she was to achieve some goals (masculine vibe blah blah blah) and I qualified her on her intensity and found a playful way to make fun of her which she LOVED. She wasn’t clearly accepting my verbal escalation but she wasn’t leaving, and was complying. I went for a kiss about halfway through the second drink, got rejected but held my frame that it was important that I tried and that she knew I tried. We then went for a walk along the river, she told me some things and we started kissing. After a little bit she ran away into an Uber, claiming she had to get up for class in the morning.

The next day I suggested we keep it going, she agreed, I suggested cooking at her place, and she started to get squirrelly after that telling me she had a class project and would let me know if she could make it. I let it go from there.

My airbnb was tiny but in a very central location, I didn’t quite feel confident pulling here there, but I think my peak opportunity to pull was after our first proper kiss along the Seine. That was the right time to try and invite her in.

After 2 days had a few leads and some girls responding over text, but I was only in Paris for a few days, and didn’t have much time to work. Saw one Daygamer on the street – he was a French speaking African and had a backpack on and was approaching posh looking French girls, didn’t seem to have much calibration or luck. I did an approach and he walked by, but I’m not sure he recognized what I was doing.

Warsaw

I arrived in the afternoon, and Thomas Crown was already here. He had told me roughly the area to try day gaming, and so I walked around on my own. We met up later after he had been on a date and did another walk around together. While I was in a shop he opened a girl, she was weird and squirrelly, when I came out of the shop he was just winding it down with her and some polish street promoter started talking to her, so I entered to chat with TC and give some social proof. Well the promoter guy runs off, and TC decides to go into the shop and I continue the conversation with her. She was still squirrelly, not revealing the country where she was from, and somehow TC comes back and invites her into his place, and I eject to go put my shopping in my apartment (which by chance was 2 doors down from TC). He said it didn’t really go anywhere and she was a strange girl. Interesting winging experience my first night. 

I got some IOIs in Poland. Not as many as in Paris. I approached often without getting an IOI. I have been told in the US that I look Polish, so that could also be why I didn’t get as many IOIs, its possible I am not exotic or polarizing enough. The girls were walking slower and would often stop. I did have a girl leave mid set, without saying a word when her friend showed up. That has never happened to me before. My imagined story is that she had a boyfriend and didn’t want the news to get back to him that she was talking to a handsome stranger in the street. Who knows?

The next day, I walked along the main Daygame route and did a few approaches, girls were stopping, we would chat for a few minutes and then inevitably a boyfriend would be mentioned. This was a common pattern – a K-select country. I asked them all how they met – no one met online. Anyway, TC joined later in the afternoon, and one of my first approaches after he joined turned into an instadate. A 24 year old Russian (of course) lawyer that I later found out was a gymnast. I took her for coffee, her English wasn’t that strong so we started to rely on google translate. This was my first real google translate date, ever. As I was talking into the phone with the voice recognition I would stare into her eyes – it seemed to get a good response – she liked the voice and eye contact and the mystery of what I was trying to say which would soon be revealed. I found out she had been on a trip with a guy and broke it off with him in the middle of a trip (a good and bad sign), we then went to a tourist site together (she paid for our tickets), and I got some leading and playful vibes going. She joined me for a drink, and this is where she really started asking me questions about myself. It was going well, then it took a while to pay for the drinks (customer service in Poland, not so good), and I could feel the buying temperature had dropped a little bit. I bounced her to another bar nearby, and the buying temperature dropped more. She asked me how old I was. I didn’t lie. Probably should have. We agreed to meet the next day and she “ran off to meet friends” at 9PM, which I didn’t really believe – it felt like a false curfew. She left my WhatsApp ping the next day unread. In hindsight, I should have tried for a bounce to my apartment for tea as soon as we left the first drink place. TC was inspired by my instadate and went out and got a gutter game close. We got pizza later that night and debriefed. TC is a solid dude. 

Anyway, I did some more approaches the next day, lots of girls with boyfriends. No luck, no numbers. Met up with TC and Mr R (who lives in Poland) and walked around some. 

The next day was my last day (again just in town for a few days), and I was hell bent on making something happen (Never Ever Give Up), and I ended up on an instantdate with a Ukranian girl who was on her way to see the Joker movie. Determined in about 40 minutes that she was a timewaster and she wasn’t accepting any verbal escalation, got a number from a Ukrainian girl claiming to be a model (I made fun of her for that) but couldn’t get her out, and then I met a Polish girl in her 30’s and idated her to a bar nearby (same one I took the Russian to the day before, and the waitress totally recognized me). We ended up kissing in front of my airbnb, but she wouldn’t come in. I walked her to her hotel (to try and get invited in, and it didn’t happen). 

Vienna

The girls in Austria liked me. Quite a few of them commented on being approached (this never happens, thank you for approaching, you’re very brave, Austrian men would never do this). I hit the major shopping and tourist streets for a few days and got some IOIs. I got much better at recognizing IOIs. I was surprised that I would get a lot of IOIs from Russian girls with their families. 95% of the girls stopped in Vienna. The ones that didn’t told me they didn’t speak English. 20% of what I stopped was Russian speaking. Saw no daygamers my entire time there. I got a number from a Hungarian student, a blonde Italian student, an Austrian, (all of whom responded enthusiastically but didn’t come out – this was the first week of school) and went on an idate with another Austrian – she was very compliant and into it (and texted me first) and I think I could have closed if I had a few more days to run game. I met some girls that I probably would have gotten a number from if I were there longer. I met plenty of girls with boyfriends, they were still great to talk to, and none of them met online. I plan to long game the girls I met in Vienna. I doubt it’s a magic place, but part of this Daygame discovery journey is to figure out parts of the world where girls like you and your look. I think Austria might very well be one of those places for me. Cost of living is about half of New York, the marriage laws are favorable to men vs the anglo/commonwealth countries. Central European girls also seem to want to have kids, unlike American women who just want a dog baby.

I also spent a day in Bratislava, Slovakia since it is so close to Vienna, Austria. It was a waste of time. Small city center and a nice shopping mall. The mall was where I had the most luck. Did a few approaches but it didn’t go anywhere.

Conclusions

Paris was comparable to New York in terms of quality – 7’s with some 8’s and 9’s that turned out to be Russian. It was also around the fashion week time, so there were plenty of models running around. Volume was lower though due to lower population density. English levels were higher than I expected. Paris was clean and I felt pretty safe.

Poland average was somewhere between 7 and 7.5. Better than Prague (where in my opinion the average was between 6.75 and 7.25 if we are splitting hairs). Volume was lower and lots of girls had boyfriends (as one would expect of pretty girls in a k-selected country). Prettiest girls I approached in Poland turned out to be Russian or Ukranian. English levels were higher than I expected. Poland was clean, safe, cheap and the busses ran on time.

Austria average was similar to Poland between 7 and 7.5, maybe just a hair lower because I have a slight preference for the slimmer profile of girls of Poland, but I seemed to get a warmer response from Austrian girls and the girls living in Austria, which surprised me. They also seemed more musical and artistic. English levels were very high. Austria was clean and safe and the public transit was great. Architecture is fantastic. This is my favorite city so far.

In all 3 countries I visited this trip (and Prague too from an earlier trip this year) the girls walk slower and stop easier but the population density is lower than Manhattan, and thus the possible approach volume is lower.

Europe *is* easier. Sample size for this trip: 80 approaches, 10 numbers, 5 dates -> 3 bungled pull attempts. I’m still working on my calibration for pulling, and I learned about recognizing the high point of the date and trying to escalate at that point. I know it sounds obvious, but I am having to re-learn and rebuild this part of my game. Losing some hot girls is always a powerful learning experience that gets burned into your memory.

It makes sense that the London Daygame model was invented in Europe, it would have taken significantly more energy to develop it in New York (and Paul Janka is probably the only innovator we really had over here).

I might do another jaunt or two, or I might just up and move to Europe in a few months – I have to see how a few business things shake out.

Frame: Carrot vs. Stick and Active Disinterest

Frame: Carrot vs. Stick and Active Disinterest

Playing to win, instead of playing to not lose, those were some brave words.

It was braver still to act on them. It’s like the tide is going out on your ego and you’re going to see how good you are. I feel pretty naked. The tide is out. By playing to win, instead of playing to not lose, I am currently losing, or at least not winning. But what is daygame if not an exercise in delayed gratification. It would be demoralizing if I couldn’t figure out what to work on next. But I did, and you’re going to read about it.

Krauser talks about this frustration. He calls it out as “not actually doing daygame” but rather “having a nice chat with a stranger.” Yep, that’s what it feels like. Combined with some guys on Twitter telling me what my stats should be (they are likely right, but it’s hard to trust guys on twitter, especially the ones there for marketing purposes). I think this might be a reasonably accurate assessment of where I am in the process. I keep wishing I would figure these things out faster, but one of my favorite quotes from Mystery is that “patterns emerge over time.” Anyway, I have a slightly different conclusion than Krauser about how to break out of the “nice chat with a stranger phase,” and I’ll get to that later.

I’m good at approaching and I like talking to girls, ok, I’m good at having nice chats with girls. I’ve gotten many numbers and dates and even pulled a handful of girls (strongly available maybes and 1 definite yes girl). Many kisses, many near misses. I’m much more confident than I was 3-6-12-24 months ago. This was despite playing to not lose. Roy Walker described me as enthusiastic a few months ago and warned me of a phase most daygamers encounter when it becomes a grind. After the occasional setback, I often think “Ok, maybe I’m at that point now,” but it goes away after a few days and a few good sets.

My main problem right now is my frame. My frame leaks nice guy way too often. Nice guy has been leaking out of me all summer. In case you didn’t know girls in NYC really don’t like nice guys. This has been revealed by letting go of the ego game of playing to not lose and challenging myself to see what happens when I play to win (and I lost a lot more).

I’ve been building a boat to cross the river. An analogy that Nash uses often when we talk. Clearly a manly boat, I’m in shape, successful enough, tall enough, fit enough, leader of men, protector of others, check, check, check, but my frame is wrong. My boat looks pretty good but has an obvious leak and girls don’t want to get into a leaky boat.

Returning to reality from the analogy, here are some examples of what goes wrong:

In my approaches, sometimes my tease hits but then the rest of my conversation turns into an informational chat and becomes nice guy. Mr. V coined something like this “Your conversation with a girl will become as boring as you both can accidentally make it.” If the tease doesn’t hit, it’s usually a good indicator that she’s not in the mood to talk and it’s not going to go anywhere, but when the tease hits and it dies, it’s on me and my frame. I know I can’t get them all, but I can do better and I will.

Also, frequently in approaches and on dates, I give too much value, like something out of Japanese politeness culture or Mr. Rodgers neighborhood: “Oh you’re a singer, that’s cool and you must have a wonderful voice.” It works great for making friends and influencing people. It’s definitely a staple of my management style, and it makes me approachable and works great for leading teams and male and female employees. It just doesn’t work for attracting girls. This is part of the reason that many successful CEOs don’t do well in game. It’s too much carrot and not enough stick. My use of carrots is fine. I need to use more stick. It will probably make me a better leader too.

Instead I need to be more skeptical. It should be “You’re a singer? Oh God (credit Mr. V and hat tip to Mystery)! I hear autotune enables anyone to become a singer these days.” It’s subtle, but this preservation of my relative value in the interaction is probably the biggest missing ingredient of my frame. I just give it away. If I had it, I would unconsciously be more challenging and teasing. Referring to my analogy du jour, my frame just immediately leaks out of the hole in the bottom of my otherwise pretty cool boat.

If you see the girl as a glass that is half full, you’re not protecting the relative value frame and are in danger of slipping into nice guy. Accidentally, the girl is placed on a pedestal. If you see her as a glass that is half empty, the relative frame is skewed correctly, and it is more likely she will work to get you. Hypergamy is a thing. I would like to think I am actually relatively neutral on how I view each girl, part of that is I know I can just meet more, but I think I get skewed a little toward the glass half full perspective and lose my relative value frame because I am curious about them and not challenging enough. Curiosity is killing my pussy cat.

An example of losing the frame on dates: I get a girl out on a coffee date and the chat somehow slips into nice guy because I don’t go in with the correct relative value mindset, no challenge to her, just curiosity. That’s coming in at a disadvantage because of my mental frame. I have been counteracting this by trying to hit Magnum’s 5 points. I have had some success with this – a few dates where I got a girl to my apartment and lost her after kissing. The success so far has been in playing to not lose – I identified when a girl was repeatedly steering away from sexual topics and I decided to cut the date short. Helpful, but not enough. Need more challenge.

Another big thing that Mr.V pointed out to me about my dating conversation skills is getting into conversational quicksand (usually cultural quicksand where we end up talking about cultures too much) because I enjoy the topic. There are a few other topics like this that I have to avoid getting stuck on – I’m sure most guys have a few of these. The frame improvement for me is to say something about it, to show her a taste of my interests and personality and keep the seduction train moving through the station.

It is amused mastery, yet “I am the prize” that is spouted so often on Twitter just isn’t articulate enough. Neither is Lance Mason’s classic take on amused mastery: “everything she does is cute.” I am better than you needs to be subtly and constantly reiterated. Being a challenge. I’m skeptical so you need to work to impress me (which sounds like a mild form of dread game). The best she can do is that’s cute when she tries to fight and you enforce the frame until she submits and complies. Her reality is ridiculous no matter what – like most of us think of our bratty little sisters (if we have them). You reward her for submitting and complying and honoring you and your reality, but you have to maintain that relative value frame.

She needed less carrot and more stick too.

There is an escalation ladder of enforcing frame when a girl does behavior you don’t like (paraphrased from Krauser – source was his blog or one of his books, will update with the source later) followed by an explanation in carrot/stick terms:

  • 1) Ignore (no carrot, no stick)
  • 2) Joke about it (little stick)
  • 3) Call it out (bigger stick)
  • 4) Demote her/Next her (stick, no more carrots)

1 and 4 are passive strategies. They work if she’s attracted and is causing drama and notices you ignore it or step back and she will chase. That is if she is already attracted to you. I am actually pretty good at doing those naturally (withholding carrots), but they are passive and trying to attract a girl by ignoring her is generally a bad plan, and that goes double for NYC where there are so many shiny happy people holding hands.

Recalling the Mystery Method, active disinterest is where attraction is created, and that is essentially 2 and 3. You either tease her (preferable) or put her in her place or even frame crush (provide discipline her like her father should have). She’ll get a defensive tingle from that. This is the challenge aka the stick treatment.

Mystery’s classic example of active disinterest is “You’re French?” “I love French girls, I can’t even talk to you right now. *Back Turn*.”

I have not been consciously doing 2 & 3 and those are absolutely the weakest part of my game. Sometimes I would get lucky and it would work out and I think that’s how I got my dates and lays to this point. Getting lucky. That’s not really game. I should use more active disinterest to generate attraction, in approaches, on dates, all the time. Coupled with more tweaks to improve my overall relative value frame and remove conversational quicksand I expect to see more results. Good thing Mr. V is exceptionally good at teasing. You become an average of the 5 people you hang out with and I am getting better at teasing by hanging out with him.

In the last 6 months, I have definitely been escalating better. It puts a smile of validation on my face when a girl gives me the vibe of “Ooooh, how did we end up kissing like this, he knows how to escalate and I liiike it…” which gets verbalized as “…you move fast (said with a smile between kisses)…” When women describe being swept off their feet, this is what I imagine is happening.

Referring back again to Krauser’s post, he recommends a guy break out of the “friendly chat with strangers phase” by becoming more sexual in set. I agree, it helped when I actively did that a year ago. I regularly do spikes, stepping in, the little toe kick, laser eye contact, etc. But that is not my issue. This is part of the reason I am ending up in the situation with the girl where she is like “how did we end up kissing like this so quickly?” it was a friendly chat that turned sexual as I escalated and she complied and went along with it. She is a little surprised and often smiles as she gets swept off her feet. Hoever (I’m going to leave that typo there), even when it goes well, it is too much pull. Friendly chat + escalation is pull. That’s only half of the push-pull needed for seduction. She should start to feel like chasing me at that point. What is missing is the push, the active disinterest and making her work for it. If she is working for it, then she is not surprised by the escalation, and is a more active participant in the escalation and it proceeds much smoother.

Perhaps Krauser has a more naturally strong frame and so it doesn’t necessarily occur to him as a frequent issue. Or maybe I’ve just been developing in some unusual organic way. I’ve absorbed most of his teachings and gotten some results, but my diagnosis is that my frame (specifically holding my relative value frame and maintaining it by active disinterest) is my sticking point.

I’ve been losing some the past few weeks. It’s OK. One of the good things about solo sports, like… say… running… is that you are competing against yourself and you can train with and against others to motivate yourself to improve. Daygame is also a solo sport, and having a good friend in Nash, and a good wing in Mr. V (and Magnum and LongBurnDaFire) helps me sort through things quicker and bounce back from the daygame lowpoints when we are struggling with our sticking points.

Finally, this Twitter and Blog thing has been helpful for meeting new people. I spotted a guy on the street about a month ago who approached a girl I was about to approach. He did well and got her number. Then about 2 weeks ago, he approached Mr. V after Mr. V approached a girl he was about to go after. He was like “I read some Krauser, and I follow some guys on Twitter, Nash and Runner… …that put a smile on my face.” We’ve been out a few times since then, he has a really good vibe: enthusiastic and reminds me of myself a year ago. I don’t want to out him, but I know he’s reading. Those kind of encounters are the reward of having this blog.

Playing to Win Versus Playing to Not Lose

Playing to Win Versus Playing to Not Lose

Several dates and conversations led me to a big epiphany this week about playing to win instead of playing to not lose.

Approaching to win: I realized that a lot of my approaches have gone down a cultural interview path, or a friendly chat. Any leads from those go nowhere. I have been regularly guilty of playing to not lose: not teasing enough (not wanting to lose by having her possibly get offended), not making an attempt at holding them there longer (“ok, bye” instead of “hold on” that MrVDaygame uses), and not shutting up on occasion and letting them invest (and trying too hard to carry the conversation and keep it going when they just aren’t hooking). To stop doing this and open with the intention of winning, I have to go in with a stronger tease (which could fail) and be more polarizing with more spikes and “hold on, stay put” frame (which can be rejected), and giving them an opportunity to invest (which they may not). Higher quality sets will yield higher quality leads.

Texting to win: you could lose a girl to being overeager, and you could lose a girl to being too cool. Trying to time it just right and playing to not lose can trap you either way. I think I have been playing it too cool and too overeager at just the wrong times. My current model (which I am now testing) is to keep the energy going with a light tease text (nice to meet you Ms. Orange Soda) or something, and then try and keep the energy going, not falling into the trap (as Nash called it) of waiting too long and being too cool (a symptom of playing to not lose by overcompensating for not wanting to come across too eager/ thirsty). Girls in New York City are bombarded with men and activities and all sorts of distractions so you have to harvest their attention while you have it (trying to keep their attention would qualify as playing not to lose). So as long as they are compliant, I am now trying to respond rather quickly and with some light banter, and try and seed a date and get them out (as one should). 

Anywhere along that line they can break things and cease being compliant and that is where an active push is the right move. An example of the push is when you attempt to invite her out for a drink (and this happened to me yesterday) and she says “can’t I have yoga at 715” and doesn’t offer an alternative time. I made fun of her lightly by “yoga yoga yoga yoga” and she responded with “I know, I know” and was more compliant after that. Still didn’t end up getting her out for other reasons, but I know she’s a dead lead and I played it to win. It felt good to know.

There are also girls that just want to be text buddies and never come out. By playing not to lose, she wins a friend. Yes, I am speculating that female friendships with each other are about as strong/valuable as a text buddy relationship (not very) and because you are afraid to lose, you end up losing your limited and valuable time on this earth.

Dating to win: Nash talks about trying to kiss a girl every date. Magnum talks about not kissing a girl on a short first date so that things escalate further and faster on the second date. Different methods, I’ve tried them both. Both work. What’s important is they have a plan, and they’re both dating to win. 

Regarding dates: I had a date with a 2-set from Europe with MrVDaygame a week or so ago, and each thread of the conversation that he started had some point and often it was sexual. My conversational threads were all over the place and while some of my threads were teasing and sexual, there were enough neutral or repetitive threads that made it more of a fun cultural chat, as opposed to a sexual man-to-woman date conversation. I kept checking (and re-checking) certain conversational boxes over and over because I enjoyed talking about them, not because it was moving the seduction forward; this is not game, in fact it is anti-game. It is a trap I was falling into for a looooooong time, easily since I was a teenager. It’s humbling to be able to abstract my former attempt at “game” as “Oh you like _____ too! Let’s talk about _____. Of course she’ll like me if we both like to talk about _____ and I tease her a bit and escalate” and while it did work on occasion if she really liked me, if she was on the fence the anti-game would repel her because it is a subtle form of playing not to lose. And the worst part is, I thought I had game. Ugh. Instead, the way to go is acknowledging and appreciating a mutual interest and then cutting the thread and moving the seduction train forward: “I like that you like _____, it makes me feel like we have a connection. What’s that funny look you’re giving me, you nerd? *playful push*”

Regarding series of dates: Particularly Russian speakers and New York career girls on the wrong side of 28 like to have rules in place for how many dates it takes to seduce them. I like to move fast enough to get their attention and show off some confidence (I like it when they are kissing me with a big smile and telling me “You move pretty fast” though I fuck this up occasionally by trying to move too fast and coming across as too eager not going 2 steps forward and 1 step back). Occasionally, when I move that fast, and we have comfort, then little compliance and frame tests come up. Come visit me in Brooklyn! (before we’ve had a sexy time). Enough of these, and you realize it just isn’t going to happen for whatever reason. Her programming is to not get pregnant with the wrong guy, and I am running into all sorts of fences to the possibility of the sexy situation where she could possibly get pregnant. By putting up with that, I am playing to not lose. To her it looks like I am so invested in the idea of getting with her that I will put up with whatever bullshit she wants to throw at me; as a result we are less likely to get together and stay together if we do get together. Ultimately it’s a waste of time and energy.

Many romantic stories are told by grandparents (“He just kept pursuing me! I finally had to say yes!”), but I suspect that those stories are omitting that some small amount of progress or compliance was being demonstrated each time, or it’s just Grandma reminiscing about what it felt like to be pursued.

What is the advantage of playing to win?

My hypothesis is that playing to not lose is less likely have winning outcomes. Your energy is focused on winning and winning only. Sounds a lot like the idea of top guy that Nash and Yohami keep bandying about: top guy has so much abundance he can only see the girls saying yes and doesn’t even notice any girl saying no. I’m not top guy, but I occasionally get a taste when a girl tornado gets going (where I have more leads than I can manage) and only the girls that step forward make it through because they are all I can see. When I’m not in a girl tornado, I can emulate top guy behavior by playing to win.

There’s a classic wall street book “Hedge Fund Market Wizards” about successful Hedge Fund managers by Jack Schwager, and in his interview with Ed Seykota, he asked “What are the elements of good trading?” Ed’s response “The elements of good trading are: 1) cutting losses, 2) cutting losses, and 3) cutting losses. If you can follow these three rules, you may have a chance.” There’s an old trader saying that is at least 150 years old: “let your winners run and cut your losses short.” As Nash has said, if he’s making progress with a girl, letting it take a few more dates to seduce her is very OK. He’s letting a winning girl run. A calibrated play to win.

By having a lot of volume and approaching often, it can set you up to play to win and emulate top guy behavior, as you are forced to cut girls quickly when they disappear or don’t comply or otherwise misbehave, and just the winners remain in the running (until they misbehave). You cut your losses by avoiding chasing her (and rewarding her bad behavior) or attempting to negotiate desire and get her to come around, which frequently ends up being a waste of effort and energy. You can then focus your energy on the winners or looking for more winners.

I have also found it to be emotionally relieving to identify the girls who are going to not comply or behave badly, make one attempt at a corrective action, and then let them go if it doesn’t work. I gave them a shot, played to win, didn’t work, move on and don’t think about it further. This is also the mindset of elite athletes, if they miss a shot, they shake it off, and focus their energy on the next one, that unhindered psychological focus is a big part of their training and development that enables them to perform at an elite level.

Play to win.

2 years on… …is daygame worth it?

2 years on… …is daygame worth it?

Yes, but not for the reasons you might expect.

Many people have expectations and fantasies even about what daygamers do. Most daygamers, even the advanced ones think they should be doing better than they are.

Originally, I was going to start Daygame in 2013. Nash, who was one of my friends and nightgame wings at the time was like “Oh Shiiiiit! Runner’s serious. He’s going to get good at daygame and leave me in the dust, I better get started…” …and he did. Meanwhile, after ordering Krauser’s books, I got a girlfriend (from okcupid), and was then poached out of that relationship by another girl (from my social circle), and then I broke it off with her and moved to New York and tried Tinder for a few years. It stopped working for me in 2017, I don’t exactly know what changed, but I decided to drop Tinder (I didn’t officially delete it until May 2018, and I closed a few girls off it while starting daygame).

So I started and committed to daygame on August 6th, 2017. I forced myself to go out regularly. Now, 2 years later, I’ve done 2371 approaches as of August 5th 2019, and closed 4 girls. 600 the first year, 1800 the second year. Most of my improvement came in the second year, I just wasn’t approaching enough in my first year.

Here’s some raw data:

The Raw Numbers

I currently have a 10% chance of getting a lead (e.g. a number) from an interaction. 90% of my leads are phone numbers and a few are instagram or facebook. I got one email once from a ballerina who never responded.

Visual representation of how much you should approach.

Note the slope became consistent with more approaches, 5/day on average is what it takes.

First instadate was at 100 approaches, first date + makeout at 250 approaches, first close at 370 approaches, second close at 540 approaches, third at 1110, fourth at 1820. Based on those numbers my expected yield would be somewhere around 1/450 close to open. If those are my stats, I’m overdue for a new +1 anytime now, but I have 2 strong prospects, one of whom is getting back from a 2 week vacation tomorrow (she’s been in touch regularly while on vacation) so I’m pretty optimistic that my stats are consistent.

I was hoping that my yield would be higher, but I am starting to accept that it will get higher over time.

Could I have had a higher yield?

Yes. I don’t need to pad my numbers to sell anything. My sole motivation for doing this is my own satisfaction and achieving my own goals. There are a few girls who wanted it (they were strong maybe or yes girls) and I turned them down because something was off, I didn’t want the risk of dealing with them – sticking your dick in crazy is a little more dangerous in America – litigation and social media #metoo nonsense have caused some girls to miss out on sexy times with me.

I also have had a number of near misses, where I escalated too fast or too slow or made obvious mistakes on the date. These were the tuition of learning calibration. I thought they were sure things, and maybe I fucked it up, or something else derailed the train.

I had to unlearn many bad habits that were taught to me by a previous life in nightgame and the Tinder experience. I do occasionally go on a night out, but it is less than once a month, and lately Mr. V and I have started trying out some areas of Manhattan on Friday or Saturday between 10 PM and 1AM for this thing called gutter game. It’s fun, it’s like we found a new candy store. I should have been doing this earlier, but better late than never.

Daygame in New York is hard. New York city has so many people from so many parts of the world (many of them are even the infamous shithole countries) that it has become a low trust society. Girls assume you are trying to sell them something or worse and will often just have a frame of “I don’t talk to guys on the street.” By being fit and dressing well (meaning stylish, not expensive) and smiling and having a lower voice and a good vibe, you can get them to stop, but that still guarantees nothing…

My yield might also be lower because I approach models and actresses that are running around the city. I feel entitled to it because I have gotten enough numbers and dates with some of them. I have not closed any of the girls of this caliber, but I have come close. It got easier when I stopped caring and pedestalizing them and realized that they are just like other girls. When I approach these types of girls the response is usually very polarized – it’s a low yield but high reward.

Finally, at the risk of sharing what may be a limiting belief or a weasel: One other reason I have considered for my yield being lower is that I have a more introverted personality type, and I’m an intuitive. That’s what’s known as a nerd for those of you who don’t know much about personality types. I can have a good connection with any other personality type, but some are more likely to connect with me than others. I consider psychological chemistry to be similarly important to physical chemistry, and my personality type is rarer and I connect deeper when I do connect, but less frequently. If I had a different personality type, I would either 1) be terrible at daygame or 2) be more successful by a made up estimated factor of 2-5 based on self reported results from twitter guys and have more lays to my daygame career. Maybe that’s bullshit, I’m going to do another year of daygame and I’ll let you know what I think next year.

What have I gained?

In a word: growth.

I’m seasoned now (though I still consider myself an intermediate daygamer). Some days I need a quick warmup to get the social muscles going, other days I just start out hot. Approach anxiety still happens, as does approach apathy, but they are not obstacles or anything that would be considered a problem. I’m more likely to approach girls in my daily life – luck is opportunity meeting preparation, and I am prepared to meet girls when the opportunity presents itself.

In approaching, I do fine alone, it’s more fun with wings and I think I can go longer and it is helpful to have someone spotting IOIs, but it is occasionally a competitive situation between Mr. V and I. I try to let him have the redheads (we call them Wendy’s after the restaurant), unless he’s in another interaction, then I have to approach.

I am internally validated. I’m sure there are some people that are following me on twitter and definitely a few of my friends that know I do daygame who are like “you really talk to 450 girls just to make the sex with one of them?” or recently “that seems like a poor use of time. I can get 4 dates a week on tinder or hinge.” Sure. Good for you. Cool story bro. When Tinder or Hinge or whatever dries up – what will you do then my man?

Internal validation is soooooo gooooood for my vibe. I am happy with the girls I am meeting, and I am enjoying talking to girls, and I am improving and becoming a better man. I feel like a reasonably well-adjusted man most of the time, and some girls have even commented on it. No one can manage my vibe for me, and it’s fully my responsibility to develop and maintain.

I pedestalize girls much less than before. Nash used to say that any time I mentioned I got a number from a model, he knew it was going to be a bad time for me, I had already pedestalized her. Now I don’t seem to care as much and I am mainly looking for signs she is into me.

The biggest improvement I have had to make to my “game” is teasing. Teasing is so fundamental to attraction, and part of the reason my yield was so low to start is that I was too serious and didn’t tease well or enough. I have a feeling Roy Walker and Thomas Crowne probably sensed that about me when they met me (serious and enthusiastic). Mr. V is very good at teasing, and by hanging out with him, I have absorbed much more and easily gotten 100% better in my approaches since I started hanging out with him. It also just makes it more fun. Fun is good for one’s vibe. Teasing is also creative and feels like poetry to me. Many of the great seducers of history were also poets (need a reference to back up this assertion), and I am starting to see the connection. Still working on this.

I can now handle the extreme weather. The extreme NYC summer temperatures of 107F (41C) (it’s been 85-95F (30-35C) for most of July 2019) and winter temperatures of -20 are not a complete impediment, but I have strategies for dealing with them (fashion choices, going indoors, etc.).

I’m better at texting. I write shorter texts with more commanding and leading, my pings are more fun, and I have realized that even if you don’t text perfectly, if she likes you, it doesn’t matter. I have become a daygame stoic, shedding the mystical worship of the daygame gods and the belief in a magic text that will make her like me enough to actually come out on a date. I still wish there was a magic text, but I’ve cured that expectation so I’m more outcome independent and that pays dividends in my day to day vibe. Still constantly improving. Mr. V and I will also sometimes review texts as we are more impartial, and that editing really helps hone what should be sent as a text message and what is better said in person. We do come up with some really funny stuff sometimes that does not end up getting sent. Still working on this.

I’m better at dating. I spend a lot less money (some second dates would cost me $40-$60-$90 and then I would get ghosted), and now I try and kiss girls relatively quickly to determine if they are into me or not. I am wasting a lot less time chasing girls that are “just not that into me” and also filtering out the foxy illegal economic migrants from Eastern Europe who move here looking for an under the table waitressing or nanny job and English lessons (and maybe they are looking for a guy, but somehow I don’t end up being their type or perhaps I’m lost in the r-K-selection wilderness). Still working on this.

On dates where I know she likes me, I can be bolder and more playful and thus be even more attractive and really have a great experience together. It’s rewarding and very seductive to feel powerful on a date. I feel that way much more often now. My logistics are more efficient, so things move faster. Still working on this (noticing the pattern here?).

Conclusion

I’m pleased with my progress so far, and I’m going to stick with it. This next year I aim to get better at approaching in shops and other retail establishments like this guy. I hope my yield goes up, I anticipate that it will, but even if it doesn’t that’s OK. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need. I’m going to keep going. Daygame Stoicism.

The Daygame Gold Rush

The Daygame Gold Rush

This post isn’t about monetizing game or products or email lists and shit like that. Daygame discussion on Twitter and the Internet is a mess. Just like any gold rush, there is a lot of commotion, activity, and excitement. Is there much gold?

The reports of many men on Twitter make it seem like gold is everywhere on the street, just waiting to be picked up. So many men set out to look for gold, traveling to California or the Yukon or Papua New Guinea or wherever the latest gold rush is announced.

Fools Gold

The conception in society is that you (man or woman) should just be yourself and walk around and you will magically find gold in your daily life. You just have to believe…

There are men claiming to participate in the gold rush, claiming to have struck it rich already, who claim to find gold regularly, but really the tiny amount of gold they find is augmented by another business, where they hunt for gold in the night markets, or they match in an online gold market, or purchase it outright from gold selling services. These men are often hustling and working hard for their gold, but they are not gold miners.

There are boot camps that charge thousands of dollars to take people out looking for gold.

There are many sellers of maps to gold, who may or may not have found gold, but definitely make money selling maps to tourists and naive greenhorn miners.

There are guys selling shovels, pickaxes, gold pans, tools, lamps, tents, boots, jeans, shirts, hair pomade, diet advice, fitness advice to help in the search for gold.

There are guys who tell you how amazing it is to have found gold and what crazy things you can do once you have found it, things that other men dream about, but 99% of men will never experience. These same men truly believe in the Cities of Gold, the lost mine of El Dorado and other tales of fabulous wealth.

There are even a few women who tell you how much gold they have to offer a man, and how wonderful it is to share their gold with a man (but only a man who can find gold, much more preferably a man who has already found gold). There are many women with no gold who only want a man who can find gold and has found gold but don’t want to offer him any gold (usually because they don’t have any to offer).

There are guys who just want the validation of being perceived as lucky or clever enough to find gold.

There are guys who want the validation of being a seeker of gold, whether or not they find it.

There are guys who want recognition or a pat on the back for trying really hard to find gold and failing.

There are guys who are preaching about gold fever, and how careful one should be about pursuing gold, and the evils of what can happen to men who find it.

There are guys who obsess about how pure their gold should be, and how to identify both pure and adulterated gold.

Fools Gold (Pyrite)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pyrite-pb29a.jpg

There are guys who find fools gold (or worse: BUY it) and run around proclaiming they are rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams. Some will realize their error, and some will die believing they are fabulously wealthy.

Finders

There are a few instruction manuals with advanced techniques for prospecting and extracting gold, but most men can’t be bothered to read the manuals. And if they read the manuals, they then have to go out into the hills and start digging. It is intimidating because it looks like hard work. It is.

There are guys who just seem to get genuinely excited by finding gold. It’s a beautiful thing, watching a guy strike gold. Watching his hard work pay off.

Some have found gold and then waste it on drink, card games at casinos (or the modern electronic equivalent), and maybe even prostitutes.

The more prudent miners who have found gold don’t talk as much, and many have an understated style. Being flashy attracts the greenhorns and claim jumpers and that’s bad for business.

If you can identify the successful miners, you can learn a lot, as they will often share a lot of knowledge. They are hanging out mostly with other seasoned and salty miners, easily identifiable by the wear patterns on their boots and jeans, the calluses on their hands, the relaxed, patient confidence from toiling day in and day out.

Some of the old timers enjoy hazing any greenhorn miners that get too close or are riding too high on the hog. They do respect hustle and hard work when accompanied by a modest temperament and a good vibe.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gold_prospector.jpg

So what I am doing here?

I’m building a gold mine.

I tried hunting for gold at the night markets. I tried matching for gold online. I found some gold in my social circle, but it wasn’t enough gold.

2 years ago, I bought a shovel, a pickaxe and a gold pan. I packed a rifle a bowie knife, and a handful of salt. I bought appropriate clothing. I bought and read the fucking manuals. I did a lot of prospecting, then picked a claim, built a cabin and I started digging a mine. It was hard at first. It still is.

I suffer openly from gold fever, yet my temperament remains steadfast. I dig almost every day. I found a few nuggets, and I am convinced there is more “gold in them thar hills” (as a character of Mark Twain’s once said).

Sometimes my mine collapses and I have to dig it out again – it’s rough when that happens. Sometimes I find gold when I am digging out my old mine after a collapse.

My hope is that I will find some significant amount of gold, that it will be enough, and then I will be free to go do something else. That may be naive. I may be a gold miner for the rest of my life. Perhaps my mine will produce gold well into my old age. It’s possible that I will never find gold, or won’t find enough, and will just become a crazy old man looking for the motherlode of gold on a claim that doesn’t have any.

In the meantime, I’m just in my cabin or at my mine, doing the work that needs to be done and shooting shots in the air to ward off any coyotes or claim jumpers that get close enough to fuck with my vibe.

Finally, in case you are not the brightest kerosene lamp in the mine and are thinking: WTF did I just read? Gold is an analogy for intimacy and sex. Daygame is mining. I had fun writing this.

My Method for How to Learn Daygame

My Method for How to Learn Daygame

I’m still learning, but I’ve made such progress in the past year and it would be good to share a few thoughts on how to make rapid progress.

Volume is the most important thing. You must approach in volume, and as I said in my last post, an average of 5 approaches a day is about right. It is important to be in a larger city where you can get this kind of volume. In NYC this is no problem – there are enough women here.

First you start approaching, and just get girls to stop and give them a compliment. Even if you did only this, some girls would throw their numbers at you.

However, most of the time you will run out of things to say. You will have to develop a stack of teases and common conversational topics about nothing (weather, fashion, grocery shopping, whatever) and learn how to lead conversations about nothing and turn them into something.

Then you’ll start getting numbers (when you ask for them – took me way too long to be confident to ask for numbers, I know I left many numbers on the table).

With numbers comes the next level of learning to text, and learning to not care about texting. I only recently turned off my read receipts on what’s app and I felt better. Just send it and don’t worry about if the girl read it or not, she will respond if she likes you and won’t if she doesn’t. Knowing that she read it and didn’t respond will just trigger any neuroses you may have. You will develop some gambits and patterns or templates for texting. (Ping, Respond, Amplify, Respond, Seed date request while the phone is in her hand, etc.)

Then a girl shows up on a date. You need a date template to 1) have a plan, 2)lead her along that plan, 3) recognize when things are not going according to plan 4) improvise and try and get things back on track as needed.

A good resource for designing dates and date templates is Tom Torero’s valentines day gift to us. I have also recommended this video to my friends that use Tinder or Bumble to meet girls when they ask me for help with dating.

So after applying volume (5 approaches a day) for a while you will develop templates for the basic steps:

  1. Initially meeting girls and getting their number
  2. Texting girls to get them out on dates
  3. Going on a date with a girl

‘Yes’ girls tend to stick with the plan, that’s compliance and them helping you seduce them. ‘No’ girls deviate very quickly from your plan if they come out at all. ‘Maybe’ girls will turn into no girls unless you do something. Some people think that is game, as Nash says “Does she like you because you’re running good game, or are you running good game because she likes you?

Once you have all these templates and techniques and some practice, it really comes down to leading things toward what you want and connecting with her. Really getting to know her goes well beyond whether or not she is complying (giving you her number when you first meet her, texting you back, coming out on a date, kissing you on the date, etc.) and it’s really enjoyable when you are confident enough in yourself (through experience built upon successful templates honed by volume) to explore another person. Exploring and connecting to someone is independent of relationships, I’m not promoting R or K selection (long-term or short-term mating strategies) here, just selection in general.

It was not straight progress. I would often be stuck for weeks, trying to figure out how to be consistent. Things like not teasing correctly, conversational topics during a daygame approach, texting to get girls out on dates, escalating on dates, picking date venues were stumbling blocks along the way. When I hit a stumbling block then I would reread some or all of Daygame Infinite or Daygame Mastery (the new printing with the tacky cover art) by Krauser – what I was doing wrong was always self-diagnosable with those books. Whatever your problem is, it is very likely in there and if you reread them regularly, even if you aren’t having issues, it will help anywhere along the chain of events from getting her to stop to dominating her in the bedroom. I also watch Tom Torero’s video before dates sometimes to help remind myself about what to do or not do.

And before you ask: No, I’m not going to share my templates – they were built on my personality. Maybe they suck. Develop your own personality.

Approaching 2000 Approaches

Approaching 2000 Approaches

I started doing Daygame seriously in August 2017. Today, I’m at 1956 approaches. I keep an open What’sApp chat with Nash and record almost all of my approaches there. A few times a month I enter the stats in Excel. I consider it an approach if I am able to open my mouth and she hears it, I include all my blowouts, conversations with girls who have boyfriends, leads (phone, instagram, fb, linkedin, business cards, WeChat, line, whatever) etc.

In nearly 2000 approaches, I have gotten 128 leads, and gone on over 50 dates, kissed a few dozen, and seduced 4 wonderful girls – 2 of whom I am in occasional contact with, and one of whom has flown from Europe at her own expense to visit me and is likely to do so again.

Some people may think I’m a bum for only seducing 4 girls after 2000 approaches, and they are welcome to think so. But before you judge me so harshly, have a look at my progression and the lessons learned:

All my approaches. Note there is an uptick in the slope in June 2018 and another in November 2018.

These were numbers and leads, the first year was slow going. I was running out of things to say after approaching, not stacking, ejecting early from sets, suffering from a weaker frame. July 2018 and January 2019 are the major inflection points.

Again, I experienced some beginners luck in Sept 2017, but I was also approaching much lower quantities. July 2018 was where I started to do enough volume.

For the last 4 months, I’ve had about a 10% chance of getting a lead from an approach. I have about a 40% chance of getting a date from a lead. And about a 10% chance of seduction from there. For those who can’t do the math that suggests 0.4% or 4 seductions per 1000 approaches. My real stats are at 4 per 2000. Hmm. First two seductions came at around 370 and 540 approaches, 3rd at 1100 and 4th at around 1800. That 1100-1800 gap was 700 approaches. Did I mention it was winter? Doesn’t matter, I feel like I’m on the cusp of taking off.

So one big observation I want to share is the work rate. How many girls do you need to approach to get better? There are guys out there who say you should just do 1 approach a day. While that’s better than nothing, I don’t think it’s enough. I think the answer is 5, and here is my data to back that up:

There is an inflection point in July 2018, after 11 months, once I started to do over 70 approaches a month (2-3/day on average) and a second inflection point in November 2018 when I started to consistently do 130-150 per month (4-5/day on average).

I feel like I wasted my first year of daygame by not approaching enough. I was dating the two girls I met and seduced – taking a K-selected approach, so that did cut into my approaching. I was also amused that this daygame stuff actually worked, and that I was getting good enough to do it consistently.

Also, around July 2018 I sorted out my fashion. I found some looks that really worked for me, both summer and winter looks. That improved my confidence and the responses and I was energized to approach more. Fitness wasn’t an issue for me and I’m neither tall nor short, but style can always be improved.

Also, since November, I’ve only had 3 consecutive days of not approaching. One was Dec 23-25 and one was when I was visiting a relative who lives in a city where the daygame sucks. Because of this consistency, I really don’t have much approach anxiety and the momentum is just constant.

My prescription for doing daygame and getting decent is going out almost every day and working up to an average of 4-5 approaches per day. I have primarily run daygame in NYC so I can’t comment on if that amount of volume is possible in other cities in the world, but I imagine London, Tokyo and a few others might work.

Also worth mentioning that I met one of my regular wings on the street, he approached a girl I was about to approach, and we became friends and daygame regularly. Nash also introduced me to Magnum and to the world via Anonymous Twitter, which has also provided some interesting contacts including Roy Walker, Thomas Crown, and Mr V. Special thanks to my wings and to Nick Krauser for writing those fantastic books, particularly Daygame Infinite and Daygame Mastery.

Quality

In July 2018 and especially since November 2018, I’ve noticed that I’ve been very happy with the quality of girls I have been meeting and dating: models, actresses, tourists, artists, musicians, dancers, doctors, accountants, students, interns and a few shop girls. I’ve been attracted to all of them and really enjoyed my dates with each one. I have no fear of missing out – the money I spend to live in New York is being well spent.

In February, I began to have problems with too many leads, too many dates to try and schedule at the same time (a problem that continues to this day), and my dates were inconsistent. I talked to Magnum about his two date model and watched a Tom Torero video and those helped streamline some bad habits that had formed from my previous escapades with night game and Tinder ( I deleted Tinder in May 2017 and never looked back). I’ve also been focusing on improving my texting and escalating on dates. It’s working. I expect my yield will go up.

Conclusion

My answer is 5. Do an average of 5 approaches to day to learn this stuff. Your solution might be different. Get out there and approach. Girls like champions, and champions don’t make excuses.

Emotional Regulation: Rejection Modes

Emotional Regulation: Rejection Modes

One of the reasons athletes are successful with women is they are trained to take action (approach) and they are resilient after failure. They are able to shake off a failure as being in the past and get ready for the next point, down, match, game, race, etc.

I don’t have any major emotional response to rejection on the street. The biggest realization was that most of the time it isn’t me. This has been programmed into me after about 1500 approaches.

And I do get approach anxiety on occasion still, but I don’t consider it a problem. It goes away after I see an inspiring enough woman to approach, and once the first approach is out of the way, it’s much easier.

One of the reasons for writing this post is how much noise there is on Anonymous Twitter about approach anxiety – the guys who constantly tweet some platitude about approaching obviously don’t approach enough.


I take notes in a What’sApp chat with Nash at DaysOfGame.com to keep track of how many approaches I do in a day and make notes of anything unusual. He reads them maybe once or twice a week and makes a few comments here and there, but more importantly it is like having a virtual wing – I get a ping of dopamine as a reward when I approach, and I also have been keeping some stats since I started daygaming every day in New York City (which I will share in a future post).

Rejection Mode Checklist (Blowouts)

I cataloged a number of types of blowouts or rejections I have received. It may seem obvious, but this post is for the people who don’t approach enough

  1. Ignore blowout – doesn’t even look at you
  2. Ignore blowout – looks at you without smiling
  3. Ignore blowout – looks at you and smiles but does not stop
  4. Startle – runs away
  5. Hears your compliment. “Not interested” without stopping (might slow down)
  6. Hears your compliment. “Thank you!” without stopping (might slow down)
  7. Stops, listens to your compliment I’m late for something/in a rush/meeting a friend/boyfriend, starts moving
  8. Stops, listens to your compliment I’m married/bf/relationship, starts moving again
  9. Stops, but asks what you are selling, or that you’re the 3rd guy to approach, etc. Usually she met a charity mugger or a string of weak daygamers, this is common around union square
  10. Tells you off. Rare, I’ve had this happen only twice. I usually explain “I just thought you looked nice” and both times the girl apologized afterward and said something like “I have a boyfriend anyway.”

Reasons you get these reactions

  1. She is genuinely happy in her relationship and life (rare but beautiful when you see it)
  2. She is in a genuine rush
  3. She isn’t in the mood to talk
  4. Doesn’t want to explain her relationship situation
  5. Doesn’t find you attractive (not her type)
  6. Doesn’t like your vibe (you hesitated for an instant and that was all it took for her to decide you were weak)
  7. Mistakes you for homeless or charity mugger (review your grooming and fashion choices)
  8. You stopped her at a street corner and she feels obligated to cross the street when the light changes or get on the subway or elevator or some other social pressure

“Attraction is not a choice.”

Mystery

There is a chance she was not attracted to you, which would be a true rejection. But most of the other reasons are not related to that. So don’t take rejection personally – it’s not really rejection. Some girls will be attracted to you (especially if you are in good physical condition and dress well) and it will surprise you. It still surprises me (and it shouldn’t).

Positive Reaction Checklist

  1. The light up. Sometimes a girl lights up as soon as you stop her. She feels noticed. Sometimes even if she is trying to ignore you, she still lights up and smiles. I love that.
  2. The light up after the compliment. She wasn’t expecting it and it made her day.
  3. The light up after she pushes you away and you don’t react. This usually happens after an “I have a boyfriend” and I respond with “That’s ok, you can still be interesting, even if you have a boyfriend” This showing of outcome independence somehow causes her to light up, she recognizes your approach as a gift. I like this. It is good for my vibe. Also, when you re-open her in a week or a year, she remembers this.
  4. The hug. Sometimes girls are so excited by the approach that they want to give you a hug. It’s unusual, but it does happen. By extension a kiss on the cheek is not unheard of – I can recall one.
  5. The megatext. After you get a lead (phone number or instagram or whatever), they initiate with a long message about how excited they were to meet you. They are feeling the magic of the world.
  6. The “you look nice too” compliment or “you’re a cool guy” compliment. It’s rare, but I appreciate the validation. I say “thank you” the first time and “I know” if they repeat it.
  7. Thank you for stopping me, it made my day and other forms of “thank you” can be nice if they seem genuine, but some girls will utter an obscene number of thank you’s which indicates something less genuine or that she is uncomfortable or just has no idea what to do. Usually that happens after an early “I have a boyfriend” and my usual lighthearted “That’s ok, run along now” dismissal.
  8. Lead me. I’ve been noticing this recently – her eyes are searching yours for what to do next. She likes your approach, but is unsure what happens now. I’ve messed these up – messed one up yesterday in fact, but in hindsight, any suggestion that could move it forward will do, like going for a number or an instant date.
  9. Giggling. When combined with any of the above, it is intoxicating and super good for the vibe.
  10. In 2-sets, the girls are looking at each other and smiling, girl coding to each other that “this guy is fun, right?”

Indicators of Interest (IOI) on the Street

IOIs in New York just mean you looked interesting or she was curious about you. Maybe she does find you attractive, or she’s merely curious about you, but it could also be that you look like someone she knows, or she liked your shoes or some fashion accessory you were wearing (insert peacock emoji here). It could also be that she has a boyfriend, maybe she’s bored, or maybe she was in an emotional mood to daydream about you. You have no idea, and you’re not entitled to anything, but you can go find out by talking to her.

Even if you get an IOI, you are not guaranteed a positive reaction, anything can happen. “Why did she look at me if she as a boyfriend?” Doesn’t matter – the same reason she didn’t look at you because she was single. Go talk to her whether she looked at you or not. Maybe she looked at you and you didn’t see it.

I usually get a lead (phone number or instagram or facebook) about 10% of the time. That’s one approach in 10. I’m sure I could pad my statistics if I only approached girls who gave me IOIs, but I don’t care about padding the numbers (and I also don’t trust myself to catch all the IOIs I get). I care about getting what I want, which means approaching girls I find attractive or interesting looking whether or not I noticed them looking at me. When they light up, it’s a gift I usually get for giving the gift of my approach. I love that, it’s good for my vibe.