Desert Masquerade

TLDR: Experimenting with Daygame in college towns. Where to find water in the desert. Opening with masks.

So I know some people have strong opinions about wearing masks and how this whole covid thing is a big hoax. With all the riots and arson and looting (in American cities) and random lockdown regulations, one just loses trust in the government: Ronald Reagan once famously said “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.”  I don’t know what to make of it. I’ve been reading books, working out (lifting, sprinting, trail running), working on a number of business ideas and also somehow landed a reasonably well-paid remote job, so I’m coming out of this fairly robust and quite fortunate. I do know it’s nearly impossible for Americans to travel abroad right now (even Canada just opened up 2 weeks ago), and my permajaunt plans (which were set for April) were placed on indefinite hold until Europe lets us Yankees visit again. I hope to head back to Central and Eastern Europe soon, but I expect it will be early 2021 at the soonest, but we have no idea. So in the meantime, I’m here, in America, thriving during a pandemic, but it happens to be a land full of American women. Fantastic.

Americans are really individualistic and many refuse to wear masks, unless (but also sometimes especially because) the governor mandates it. I was in a gun store recently (any guesses why?), and I was one of the only people wearing a mask (despite governor’s orders to do so), so some people are not wearing a mask as an act of individualism and resistance against the government. I can see both sides, I don’t buy that masks are humiliating unless you buy an ugly one, and I agree they probably become counterproductive when they get wet. It is nice that collective societies like Asian cultures do wear masks as a society and that probably helps reduce contagion, but this is America and we don’t always get to have nice things. So I don’t care and just wear the mask to not be hassled. Most anti-maskers are conservative and leave you alone if you wear a mask, and the pro-maskers get their underwear tied in knots if you don’t and aren’t worth the hassle. I also look like a fierce villain in a mask and I think that works in my favor.

I left New York City (daygamenyc was a good domain for 3 years). Now I am in a college town. College just started over the past week or two. I found some water in the desert initially: most of the summer I have been dating a girl I met while in line for my new drivers license (while wearing a mask. The mask did not block my vibe. She only saw my full face when we exchanged numbers).

Did I mention college just started up again?

Whether you are in a major city or not, most shopping malls are closed. Most major business districts with clothing (that would be good high foot traffic locations) have been closed for quarantine or by government decree, damaged by looting or riots and have earned a reputation for being unsafe. Girls like shopping and feeling safe. This is very bad for daygame.

So where do you go? I have been looking at green open park areas, especially along rivers and lakes, but volume is low. I’ve observed there are lots of seated 2 sets here (girls putting themselves in a fishbowl and hoping to magically summon a pair of hot guys that trip and fall in their laps) and the occasional solo girl out for a walk or reading a book.

A few days ago I started approaching properly again to shake off the rust. I have only done a small number of approaches since April. I missed the first few walking girls, but opened a girl reading by a lake, and got her number. She texted me right away, and then didn’t respond after that. I’m guessing she was about 20, so a prime age for flakery. Still, I’ll have a few more of those, please, and eventually something will work out.

Big box stores (Target, Walgreens, CVS Pharmacy, IKEA, etc.) and grocery stores (24 hour grocery stores, as well as the smaller organic food o-op places) have been OK. I usually get about one opportunity when I am out shopping. I have a plan to visit about 3-5 such stores in close proximity to one another as a daygame “session” and see if that is practical.

Today it was the cashier at the pharmacy: I had asked her about a product in the store, and she asked me a personal question about it when I was checking out. I recognized something on her mask and teased her about it, and we had a moment. It was just good vibes, but an avoidance weasel was telling me wasn’t quite strong enough to go for a number close. I think Mr.V got a number from a cashier once, but I’ve never properly tried. I’m regretting not playing to win on that, but this town is small enough I may get another chance.

Finally, to the point: I have had good luck opening girls with masks. However you feel about it politically, it is a conversation piece. I just added a European country flag patch to my mask that will give girls a bit of conversational assistance to ask me about when we are indoors and are required to wear masks. I know longburndafire avoids wearing masks indoors and I think it can cut both ways. Opening is more important than mask or no mask, especially in low volume times like we find ourselves in, so do what you are comfortable with.

I’ve been experimenting, and my best opening line, for a girl wearing a mask, is: wait for it… “Cool mask!” and then teasing is easy with a choice of to bank robbing, looting, looking like a nurse, or an animal if there is animal print on her mask (surprisingly common), etc.

The local college also gave students masks with the college logo on it. So now I can spot them a mile away (also helps whitelist them as being over 18) and ask any girl if she goes there, and drop a stereotype about the school. How are the classes formatted: “are classes taught remote or in person?” And for a challenge “Are you learning anything?” While this seems pretty basic for a stack, girls have had a boring summer and are starved for attention, and it just seems like they bust open or gush with conversation once you open them. “I bet you have a cute smile under that mask” is my go to spike. I insert/blurt out at the earliest opportunity that I used to live in New York City before moving here, and my fashion and fitness stand out a little bit more in this smaller town.

The townspeople are less active from leftover lockdown inertia, so there are just more students visibly out and about. There were even 4 college kids out with signs about abolishing the police (won’t happen in this town). It made me laugh and gave me a little state pump.

It’s all an experiment. I have some new skills now after learning daygame in NYC, and trying them in a lower volume area is a new challenge. I don’t need as much volume to learn anymore, so I expect I will be able to find some water in the desert (In some sense, I already have, but I want MORE).

Also, I bought a car. So now I can do that thing where I stop, put on my emergency lights, and chase down a girl. Feels try-hard, but I’ll probably learn something from it, so I’ll give it the old college try if the opportunity appears.

Year 3: Runner’s Daygame Message

I started approaching in August 2017. I’ve been at this thing called Daygame for 3 years. It’s been a great experience, and I’m excited for the next few years.

TLDR

  • Gray man anonymity is important to me. Fuck you Twitter.
  • Do 5 approaches a day to climb the daygame learning curve. Be creative or wait until after Covid-19 passes to make progress.
  • 1 in 10 is a fine yield of numbers to approaches.
  • Daygame can be a strong signal of positive psychological feedback, much better than the noisy signal of online game or night game.

Gray Man

I’ve been purposely vague about myself on this blog and on my Twitter account. I have a lot of good things going for me – and I could probably handle getting doxxed or even being public about it, but I just don’t want to spend the energy to deal with that. Especially with the weird political energy going on in the US right now. Not everyone has studied information theory, but if you know someone’s zip code, birthday, and gender, you have enough information to have a good chance of identifying them. Readers know my city and my gender which is about 10 bits of information vs the 33 bits of information. Thankfully NYC has a lot of zip codes. I have been careful to not reveal my age or too much information about my career and have been operating in the style of gray man.

Also, use a burner phone for Twitter and no email. I don’t think my contact page, if it exists, even works on this website and I don’t care.

As part of trying to stay under the radar, I don’t want to sell anything online, I don’t want to teach game (it is a truly thankless job), and I claim to want to stick to trusted networks and avoid too much contact with daygamers (and even more so the various flavors of wannabe daygamers online and their weird energy, and the people who do other types of game and have highly variable opinions about daygame) though in practice I am curious about people and pretty open to meeting new people. I do have a strict rule that I must see someone approach at least once to continue hanging out with them; it’s a good filter. Vibe also matters. I prefer to meet up with people that are referrals of people I have met, or people that I encounter on the street (because they are actually approaching!). I met @RoyWalkerPUA and @ThomasCrownPUA via introductions from @DaysofGame_com. I spotted @DaygameBreeze on the street when he approached and number closed a girl I was about to approach (she was hot) and he approached me when I was out with @MrVDaygame (who @DaysOfGame_com encouraged me to meet up with, and I’m glad he did). I hope to possibly one day meet up with @seven_dg, Xants, @gringodaygame, @YuriODaygame, FSU Daygame and @LeeChoDaygame if we are in the same Eastern European country.

Someone said it’s important to share your age so others can compare and evaluate one’s results better. I understand that point, but I don’t think sharing my age will help that much relative to my other goal for this blog, which was/is to provide an example of what the daygame journey is and figuring out a repeatable process for learning it, regardless of age. Speaking of which, I am between 18 and 52, the prime ages to be doing daygame. Anyway, I started this blog because this Daygame thing was starting to work, but there was no real prescription for how to train up in daygame. Krauser’s memoirs (which I have not yet read and I admit I totally judged them by their ridiculously tasteless titles and covers) all struck me as more an attempt to model himself after Casanova than being useful for learning. @DaysOfGame_com is reading them now, and is reporting good things, so I probably should read them.

My Most Important Lesson to Share

After 3 years, the most valuable thing I have to say is: if you want to learn daygame, to regularly improve, you need to approach an average of 5 girls per day (150 per month). This is hard to do in Covid times, so consider developing yourself in other ways, like developing a hobby, getting in shape, reading books, and starting side hustle businesses instead and attacking the daygame learning curve later. You’re not going to get much better at 1/day and you’re spamming if you’re approaching 20-30 per day (and probably a super spreader in Covid times). My unsolicited advice, if you must approach, go to grocery stores and talk to girls about their masks or lack thereof. Other minor conclusions I came to on my own: I determined that Europe is, in fact, easier than NYC. I was doing some seriously stupid shit on dates. I declared myself an intermediate daygamer (which I arbitrarily defined for myself as 1 close in 90 approaches regularly for 3 months in a row) which is a silly declarative award that’s entirely in my head. But I earned it by myself, from myself, for myself for getting real results that I am pleased with. I’m sure there are many guys who have better stats than I, but I’m now competitive enough to truly have a chance against other men for the girls I like, and to get the quality I want. To the extent it is competitive, it is now mostly competition with myself, just like running on a track.

On Yield

One formative experience was at one point on Twitter revealing my early stats of approximately 1 close in 500 approaches and having none other than @jimmy_jambone (one of Krauser’s better known associates) and @BodiPUA (one of Krauser’s lesser known associates) pile on and both tell me to quit with varying levels of politeness communicating that perhaps daygame wasn’t for me. I didn’t like to hear that. I dismissed Bodi outright as I didn’t think my journey was going to be as dark as his was rumored to be, and in some sense I was flattered that Jimmy commented, but also chose to ignore his comment, as discouraging as it might have been, because I was making progress after all. I wasn’t putting up huge numbers, but I was getting high quality. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, I think I wasted my first year by not approaching enough. Then things picked up when I figured out the right amount of volume and started approaching an average of 5 girls per day.

Some other guy on Twitter selling a daygame book whose name I don’t remember also said I should be getting 1 number in 5 approaches and proceeded to dole out opinions presumably to bolster his authority and sell whatever is in his book. If you know who I’m talking about, ignore that guy, I can’t even remember who he is. I was getting (and continue to get) 1 in 10 pretty consistently. Game is harder for every 5 years of age gap according to Krauser, so maybe I was going for a bigger *yet legal* age gap, or maybe I was hitting on hotter girls (we actually do have 9s walking around in NYC and I approach them sometimes) or maybe girls in New York city just reject men more than anywhere else (a @MrVDaygame theory that has yet to be disproven). If you’re reading this 1 in 10 is fine. 1 in 5 is great. No one is 100% and I also don’t know anyone that is so terrible they get 1 in 100. I’m getting a decent yield so I’m pretty happy, and if your stats are better than mine, good for you, I didn’t ask.

Daygame: Positive Feedback Conditioning

One other comment I want to make after 3 years of this is that the psychological conditioning from positive feedback received during daygame made me a better man. I had done some night game and online game before starting daygame and done OK (I’m neither tall nor short, average looking, was in decent shape, have a career and some job skills, dressed well enough, interesting hobbies) but it was inconsistent. Feedback from girls online and in night game was so variable and the quality was also so variable the message your brain gets is really noisy and doesn’t really help to build your confidence.

Daygame was hard but when it started to work for me, I knew I was going to be OK. For one thing, even girls who weren’t available loved that I approached them and often gave me compliments and thanked me for approaching. That was extremely positive feedback. When I got a number from an 18 year old fashion model (in my 2nd month of doing daygame) I got pretty excited (even though it died quickly after a few text exchanges). When I started to get those numbers and dates of girls that I chose to approach because I found them attractive, it gave me a huge burst of confidence, knowing that I could go out on the street and *eventually* find a girl I wanted to seduce and possibly date. That positive feedback a guy earns from daygame is a strong signal, namely approaching, getting compliments, getting numbers, getting dates and closing is extremely positive psychological feedback and that fuels the psychological growth that makes us more confident. That confidence led me to get into better shape, to dress even better, to make better career choices to improve my lifestyle. The positive feedback loop spirals ever upward. Deeper social and psychological changes happened too: as I improved my game my enforcement of my personal boundaries improved (having choice with women helps develop this), which positively reinforced my frame and my confidence, and that all really helps in dealing with friends, family, business contacts and negotiations, and of course girls.

Trusted Network Formation in Daygame

I’ve been thinking about trusted networks recently.

Daygame is risky in the #metoo era – some women can have a bad reaction to your approach if they don’t find you attractive or are just having a bad day or for any number of reasons beyond your control, but which are still 100% your fault for engaging her feminine chaos. Fear of chaos is the root of approach anxiety. It is overcome by self-confidence that you can handle that chaos. Girls cannot articulate that, but they respect it.

For me it has been approximately 1/1000 approaches where a girl was visibly upset by my approach. Before whatever random feminist finds this blog says “That’s one woman too many!” it should be noted that I took some verbal abuse from those women on the spot, and stood like a tree trunk. Then BOTH of them apologized to me. One apologized about 2 seconds later and the other said “if it makes you feel any better, I have a boyfriend.” It didn’t make me feel any better, I waived her off as her momentum had been killed and she was just standing around after going off on me and backpedaling and then didn’t know what to do next. I didn’t care and was ready to go onto the next approach.

Anyway, things get dangerous when white knights step into the picture – guys trying to be chivalrous in front of the girls and “protect” them in hopes of getting laid. What those guys are missing is that those behaviors were originally intended to impress a girl’s parents, not the girl. Girls didn’t evolve to appreciate white knight behaviors until it was their own daughter they were auctioning off to the most eligible knight. Romeo was not the white knight that the Capulets had selected for Juliet in fair Verona.

A good old fashioned mob from twitter starts with a few ragey cagey feminists, often a journalist or two, and then some white knights pile on in hopes of getting noticed. They have no qualms about doxing and harassing people, attacking their livelihoods openly and directly, so it’s not unwise to be anonymous.

Some guys have to shed their anonymity to promote their content, and I guess that’s OK. Others do it for authenticity – and while that’s respectable, it does limit you to the Overton window somewhat, and cause future risk to your career if the Overton window shifts. It’s a commitment to a viewpoint that can fall out of favor. Life is long and people will dig through your old twitter for the strangest reasons.

Anyway, those of us with jobs that would be considered more traditional careers in NYC mask ourselves and operate while sharing daylight with white knights, betas with girlfriends that chose them and never had reason to question anything, harmless gay dudes, feral urban women, and of course the woke NYU journalism majors (if you meet a girl from NYU journalism is a safe guess). Any one of them can blow your cover and start a mob against you, trying to dox you, call your employer and get you fired for being a mysogonyst or whatever darker slurs they can come up with. I’m not super afraid of being doxxed, I think I could handle it, but there would be an opportunity cost of distracting me from the stuff I want to do – dealing with vitriol from people I don’t care about is a waste of time. I don’t write for them. I write to find others that belong in the trusted network.

Trusted networks are important. When you get into game – you usually start meeting guys from some online group or lair as it was called by Neil Strauss in “The Game,” and the guys in any given group are all over the map. A regular ragtag group of misfits that would never be put in a Disney movie to succeed against all odds. I’ve found that maybe 1 in 10 is actually worth maintaining contact with despite whatever personality flaws they may have (and they all do, I do too). The best filter I have come up with is to only connect with people who I’ve seen approach. A number of guys just want to hang out and talk about getting girls but not actually approach. Strangely, they also like to talk online, and consider getting a number to be a big fucking deal. It’s almost like they hope that by hanging out with you, something rubs off on them but they don’t want to do any work. When I meet a new daygamer on the street (usually they approach me), I used to like to watch them approach a few times before exchanging numbers – I didn’t realize how common it is for people to read a little bit about daygame and claim to be good at it, and then they are terrified to run up to a 6.5 and tell her she has interesting shoes to even warm up. It’s unfortunate how effective this filter is, but it works.

Thank you ladies for being the filter that helps us men test other men. We appreciate it.

To a beginner it may sound heartless:

“Runner – you were a beginner once too! Didn’t anyone take a chance on you?”

No, actually. I did daygame alone for the better part of a year. I knew Nash from doing nightgame, and he started doing daygame when I was originally going to learn daygame (but then I got a girlfriend). Since he lived in a different city and was ahead of me on the daygame learning curve, my only companion was a What’sApp chat with him where I recorded a note for each approach I did. It was just enough of a dopamine hit to keep me going.

After a few months of doing daygame, I met Cova at a lair meetup and he was probably the best daygamer I knew of at the time in NYC, and he asked me how long I had been daygaming. I was only a few months in and I think I had gone on my first date from daygame at the time or was just about to, and he just sort of disappeared and ignored me. 8 months later we met up to do some approaching and he didn’t remember me, and encouraged me to approach a girl in a store, and I ended up seducing her on the first date and dating her for a month or so. Cova is a bit of a dick, the kind of guy that gets a charge out of approaching a girl you want to approach (bad form for a wingman), but he made me earn the right to be a wing, and that was the right challenge for me, and probably for him as well. We still hang out from time to time, and he challenges me a little and I respect him for it.

Sometime last year, I was approached by a fellow I call Blackbeard (he does not have an online identity but he reads Twitter and blogs) one day after I did an approach in Union Square. We talked a little bit and I watched him do some approaches. He had only read Roosh and watched some Torero, and was approaching girls by walking ahead of them and then turning back at a 45 degree angle, not front stopping (that was the first correction). He needed a lot of work, but he did the work. He approaches even more than I do. I suggested he take an improv course and be transparent with the instructors, telling them that he wants to be more expressive. He’s made tremendous progress, and he’s young too, so he’s going to have an interesting life. I’m proud of him, and I trust him.

So a guy that approaches girls can be trustworthy. Are all guys that approach girls trustworthy? No. Are all guys that don’t approach girls untrustworthy? No. Are guys that talk a big game about approaching girls and then don’t untrustworthy? I think so, until proven otherwise. They need to grow up.

However when we have this anonymous network of guys who have developed the skill of approaching women, and we are prevented from sharing openly due to hostility and threats of persecution, trust is important. Approaching is hard to fake. Girls know it and guys who approach know it. It’s a good basic filter.

I’ve updated my blog template to be both more readable, and also to include a sidebar of people that I have met in daygame that I trust – guys that actually approach, and have taught me things and that I have met in person.

The Red Quest has written about trusted networks in non-monogamous communities:

People who are doing events will monitor newcomers for negative and positive traits and guys […] who can’t handle it will not be invited into the higher tiers of things.

The Red Quest

…and this applies to daygame as well. Some guy lied about his skill level to Mr.V and met up with him and later that day me and Cova joined them in Soho in NYC. He was dressed poorly, telling us who to approach (“I’m spotting targets for you guys!”), clearly had not done more than 10 approaches but had read a blog once about daygame. I think after that Mr.V said to me his new policy is “no new friends.”

However, I encountered Breeze (who opened a girl I was about to open) and then proceeded to get her number. I didn’t approach him, but I made a mental note of what he looked like, and then a week later he lost a girl to Mr.V (Crayon), but came and approached him afterward and I recognized him from earlier. He was like “Oh I follow Runner, Nash, RoyWalker” and it was amusing to meet him that way. He had such a good vibe and I had already seen him approach, so it wasn’t long before he was added to the trusted network.

There have also been questions about some people’s true stats recently – and some people claiming to do daygame but also mixing in night game, gutter game, online game, and there are rumors of even some guys using seeking arrangement and calling it game. I guess I’m more of a daygame purist at this point (having done nightgame and online game before deciding to do daygame). I’m not a fan of online game, and I openly look down on seeking arrangement. If it helps them achieve their goals, then OK, but as soon as people start to make claims about their stats it affects their credibility. Egos are funny things, and sometimes people need to pump their stats to feel good about themselves or to tell themselves they are better than others. There is no surer sign that someone is unimportant and should be ignored. This is why we can’t have nice things. There is a lot of this kind of fronting on twitter – selling courses, e-books, and building followers, and people will sometimes take this fakery at face value. Some might say they do damage to the community – teaching vulnerable young guys the wrong lessons and making them even more bitter when results don’t appear. That may be true. However, the trusted network roots out these kind of behaviors quickly and ruthlessly, and appropriately, the fake people tend fizzle out over time:

You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

Often Attributed to Abraham Lincoln, but likely William J. Groo in 1886
Naturally, the fake guys are quietly excluded from the trusted network.

In German there is a word männerbund, which can be translated as ‘male bond’ or possibly ‘masculine society’ (according to some guy on reddit), but I like to think of it as a male social hierarchy where guys are strongly collaborative with each other – the best example would be a group of guys in a military unit – they depend on each other in life and death situations and that forms a bond that can (and usually does) last for life.

As daygamers, we are doing guerrilla warfare against silly social rules put in place by Hollywood and listening logically to girls talk about how they want a man to approach them (they know it when they feel it but the female ability to actually articulate it properly is ultra rare – yet every girl thinks she is that ultra rare girl that can articulate it and it must be true for all women – the paradox of solipsism). This guerrilla warfare bonds us daygamers together like a military unit. We can’t talk about it openly, but we have to execute to get results.

Sports teams are a proxy for this, which reminds me of one of my favorite twitter aphorisms recently:

Some of you didn’t play sports growing up and it shows.

-Many Retweets on Twitter, no idea on the original source

Daygame wings can’t do the work for you, and with a nod to my running sport background, it’s not a team relay either. It’s a solo sport and winging is just about vibe maintenance and keeping each others vibe warm between approaches. Keeping morale up between waves of rejection. However, when you have a trusted network, you get more than that. You get genuine encouragement to keep going. Others get excited for your successes and you get excited for theirs. You step out and even though you are alone, you feel like they have your back. Your wings are with you in spirit. You belong. You’re in the tribe, absorbing the knowledge of the tribe, helping to advance the tribe. This is a good thing. Trusted networks are the real value of daygame.

In a trusted network, higher level opportunities become possible. Depending on who is in your network, you can get access to social circles, employment opportunities, mentoring, and business deals because people trust you and like you. In my opinion, this is way more valuable than selling your ebook on how to approach girls for $17, but maybe that’s because I have a good network.

To get in the trusted network you have to go through the trials of women. Getting over approach anxiety. Getting in good enough shape and dressing well enough to have a chance. Improving your frame and learning to lead and seduce. Managing to keep a good vibe throughout all the ups and downs, and numerous other self improvements that are different for each man. Become a high value guy and join the club.

I’m now an Intermediate Level Daygamer

January 1st, 2020.

Just sent a girl home after spending a nice new years eve with her just chilling at my place. She made some food and I made some drinks and we watched a movie and had some sexy times. I sent a new year ping to many old leads from the past year and heard back from more than I expected. There is another girl I recently closed who is traveling for New Years Eve, so I didn’t have any scheduling conflicts. I will probably see the traveling girl later this week.

2019 Highlights

In 2019, I had the most significant age gap with a girl I closed. It was also a really fast close, 2.5 hours meet to close. She was a tourist. Over 18, but less than the maturity threshold (computed as half your age plus 7). I’m trying hard to preserve my anonymity and avoid revealing my age.

Dated a European film actress who “had a boyfriend.” She visited me at her own expense later in the year.

I went on a lot of dates in the first few months of 2019 that when I look back, I shouldn’t have gone on them – or I should have structured them very differently. I’ve gotten better at identifying time wasters (also with some advice from Mr. V).

Statistics

Statistics update. 2960 lifetime approaches through Dec 31, 2019. 1849 approaches in 2019 (average of 5.06 per day).

95% of approaches were done in NYC. 5% in Europe. I’m doing purely daygame. I don’t use tinder or any online, and I think I’ve been to a bar for nightgame about 3-5 times total this year and maybe got one number, so these numbers reflect almost pure daygame.

I approach a surprising number (surprising to me anyway) of models, actresses, ballerinas, artists, and Russian speaking tourists that stand out (usually because of the way they are dressed, which is better than most normal American women). I am consistently getting a number for every 10 approaches, and approaching younger and hotter.

Some twitter guys who sell books claim it should be 1 in 5. But they don’t provide any context and they haven’t approached very much, if at all, in NYC as far as I know, and NYC is harder than Europe. Krauser says for every 5 years of age difference it is 2x harder, so I’m actually doing amazing. NYC is one of the big leagues of young attractive women, I’m doing fine and happy with my results:

A while back someone in the comments on this blog wanted to know what my approach to date ratio was, and I decided to compute it while I was computing other statistics. I’m getting a date for about every 40 approaches when computed over my entire approach lifetime:

Plotted another way, the number of girls i need to approach to get a date is 40 computed over all approaches, and if I throw out my beginner data as noise, it drops to 28-33ish when computed over a window of the previous 12 months:

Which, if you are doing the math, 1 number for 10 approaches, and one date for every 28 approaches, it’s about a 1/3 chance of converting a number to a date:

In 2019, I had between 4-10 dates per month (except September (1) and January (2)). Again, only from daygame.

Approach to Close Ratio

2960 lifetime approaches in a city of 8 Million People (~4 million women), I’m getting close to 1/1000 women in NYC, and that’s not adjusted for age range or hotness.

Closing 7 girls over 2960 lifetime approaches is 1 in 422 approaches. That’s not good on the surface, and both Jimmy Jambone and Bodipua were like “That’s an awful lot of work, you should probably give up and do something else.” But hey, that’s me reporting my lifetime statistics, because I bothered to keep them – maybe other people were that bad to start but didn’t record data. Recently Rivelino shared his stats, and people shamed him or mocked him (and some respected him) for his honesty.

Digging below the surface of the raw data, in the past 3 months, I closed 3 new girls, over the course of 270 approaches, or 1 in 90. 1 in 50 (claimed by Krauser and Torero) to 1 in 30 (my estimate of RoyWalker) is what one would claim as an advanced daygamer. Thomas Crown also had some thoughts. This is why, in my head (arguably the only place that matters), I am now an intermediate.

Toward the end of 2018, I had learned the mechanics of daygame approaching, I was in a girl tornado, and I knew how to escalate after kissing a girl, but it turned out that my texting and dating to escalate to the kiss needed significant work, and I worked on it this year. Mr. V also helped me improve my teasing during approaches, and that made a significant difference.

I wanted to compute how well I did this year to filter out my first year results when I didn’t approach enough. So here is the last year mapped out, approaches to close (apr-x) and approaches to close and near misses (apr-xnm) so I could estimate how well I am actually doing:

Near misses were girls I didn’t close, but kissed at least twice and tried to escalate on in my apartment. For whatever reason I couldn’t get them out again (over-escalated, LMR, they left the next day, met another guy, etc.). I computed this very conservatively. Girls I only kissed once were not included.

If I include my near-misses, over the last 6 months I’m at around 1/150, and over the last 3 months I’m at 1/100 (Oct-19), 1/70 (Nov-19) and 1/40 (Dec-19). Maybe I’m on a hot streak (after a cold streak this summer) but I think it’s more likely I became consistent enough that I graduated to being an intermediate. Looking at the data, there seems to be a clear improvement to my consistency after April 2019, so sometime between then and December 2019, I became an intermediate daygamer.

For those with difficulty comprehending the chart above, the spikes above 600 are due to computing a window over months and having a close fall out of the sliding window used to compute the stats. Having a dry spell of 3 months of near misses with no closes makes the 3 month approach to close ratio infinity – which I capped at 1200.

I’ve been very cautious about declaring my skill level to be anything other than a beginner. When the data started to level out consistently, and having finally achieved a streak of a new girl per month for 3 months in Q4 2019, this was the signal I needed to acknowledge that I was probably at the next level.

It was particularly funny to me when someone on twitter recently said something like “some twitter guru you are”. I’m nothing of the sort, I’m not selling anything, teaching this stuff is a thankless job. However, sharing my path – what progression of real stats look like over time is one way I can contribute – because there is so much bullshit out there.

I’m dating 2 girls now, so I have to balance that with continuing to approach. We’ll see how that goes. December 2019 I only did 25 approaches due to a combination of weather and dates and having a girl visit me regularly. This is also another sign I take of being an intermediate – being good enough that you have to balance dating girls you met via daygame with approaching enough to stay sharp and keep progressing.

I have a few ideas for what I need to work on to become advanced, but it can be summarized with more dates from more approaches and trying locations outside of New York City.

Mistakes Nice Guys Make and How to Fix Them

I started recording audio of my sets last month. I use the Olympus VP-10, it cost $80 but was worth it. The quality is good, the battery life is long, and it is USB so it’s easy to transfer to my computer. I use quicktime to trim audio files down to my approaches. It’s a little cringe sometimes to hear the mistakes you make in set, but it gives you more feedback which speeds up the learning process. I should have done it sooner.

Anyway, as I was listening to my sets, and a few instadates, sometimes sharing them with wings for their feedback (and roasting), a number of both tiny and glaring nice guy behaviors started to appear as patterns, reminding me of one of the fundamental mantras of game:

Patterns emerge over time.

Mystery

Nice guy behaviors can be more articulately defined as polite yet undeserved pedestalization taught by society – parents who mean well, hollywood, bad advice from girls, etc.

The opposite of nice guy behavior is push-pull behavior. You’re not flat and boring, you’re shifting sands, keeping her on her toes. This gets her attention. She notices. She may start to feel attraction.

I’m just going to rattle off my list that I’ve been compiling for a few weeks now.

  • Saying “sorry” upon stopping her or anything that implies her time is worth something, e.g. Mr. V’s “really quickly” also has this problem
  • Saying “wow” instead of “ok” or “fair enough” when she tells you something. You don’t have to be so easily impressed. Or so reactive. You stopped her, remember?
  • Not teasing properly, and just complimenting her. You have to take back the compliment or you are subtly putting her on a pedestal.
  • Stacking with subsequent compliments is bad. If she doesn’t take the compliment well or corrects you, you must throw it back at her with a push (credit to @Mr.V Daygame) “I’m not French” “Darn, I wanted you to join my pantomime club.”
  • Letting a conversation drone on. “She will let you be as boring as you can accidentally make it.” –@Mr.V Daygame
  • Not setting a sexual enough frame, more bluntly stated as “hiding your dick” and you can spike and compliment her legs, her eyes, her hair, etc.
  • Testing the sexualization by stepping in when the opportunity presents itself. If she unconsciously steps back, that tells you it’s more friendly or she has a bf or isn’t comfortable yet. If she takes it, that’s almost universally a good sign.
  • Not challenging her. No is a good thing to say, but challenging her makes you stand out. The main point is to show you don’t take her too seriously. Taking her at face value – she’s used to that, she expects it. When you challenge her, she notices it because you’re different. It also conveys subtly that you might be equal or higher status which gets her attention.
  • Accepting her frame. I recently lost a frame by talking about fur on a girls coat. “It’s fake fur” was her response. I talked about fake leather in her shoes and accused her of being a vegan. Not bad, but I fell into her frame. She was a Brazilian model I stopped on a cold day, and while she enjoyed my stop and teasing, after I lost the frame, she was suddenly cold enough to have to go on her way.
  • Asking too many questions in a row. Usually girls “have to go” after you start interviewing them. Similarly, if you stack 2-3 times, and she corrects you each time but doesn’t really hook, continuing to try is just cringe.
  • Being too thirsty. Being too eager is often the opposite of hiding your dick. There is a balance. I don’t really have this problem during approaches, but I have been that guy over text, pushing too hard or too soon for a meetup, bending over backwards to schedule something, double texting, texting more lines of text than she does.
  • Accepting bad behavior. Continuing to provide attention after a girl mistreats you (doesn’t agree to date requests for a week or two – no one is that busy, doesn’t show up – explanation or not), etc.
  • Apologizing. Most of the time you don’t need to. Err on the side of not apologizing. “I feel bad for you…” is more effective. On a related note, I find myself correcting girls who over apologize – “you don’t need to apologize for that” (Mr.V, after reading this, said it’s better to say “You gotta stop apologizing” and I agree that is more direct and probably better) and it usually feels like the right thing to do, probably because I get annoyed with people (men and women) who apologize too much.

Overexplaining

Overexplaining was one of the biggest things I was doing wrong. That’s why it gets its own list. I was going into too much depth about my vivid experiences, clever reasoning and imaginative ideas. Being clever and imaginative are great qualities but they need to be streamlined for seduction. You get some points for having it, but too much of anything and she will get bored. @jimmy_jambone in his interview with Rivelino said something like “When on a date the game is 10% and the rest is just being normal.”

  • Explaining your logical and reasoning too much, instead just describe decisions and accomplishments/achievements. Another way of describing this is informative communication vs direct communication. She feels your leadership and success and feels safe when you make decisions and stick to them and communicate it directly (a testament to the strength of your frame). Explaining too much signals investment in converting her, which implies you are not as secure in your frame. It is also informative communication and more simply, she will just get bored. Boring is bad.
  • Overdoing achievements and status and job success can also fall into the trap mentioned immediately above. Girls hate it when a guy won’t shut up about how successful he is. I actually downplay some of my success, and I’m experimenting to figure out the right amount to present so she recognizes I’m successful, but it doesn’t come across as overexplaining to prove it to her.
  • Passion sharing is good. Overexplaining is bad. There is a balance between them. It’s unlikely that a girl is likely to truly share your passion, and if she does, that’s great, but it’s not that valuable in the grand scheme of seduction (often it is conversational quicksand); you should seduce her first and then talk more about that shared passion after consummation. She more than likely wants to know that you have one, and that you’re authentic and not full of shit. Talk about a passion of yours enough, but not so much that it seems like you’re trying to convert her to your pokemon religion, as going too deep into a passion might even come across as autism.
  • Explaining yourself at all. Instead of “I just had to come talk to you” or “I was just curious about you”, I liked it is the only explanation you need. She doesn’t care much for your explanation – she will ask for it if she wants it – usually the only explanation I need to provide comes in the form of “wait, where did you see me”, “back there” *point*.
  • One common overexplanation I would use in set is when I run out of things to say sometimes, I try to buy some more time with an explanation “that’s all I got” which would sometimes create the vacuum and get her talking. Stronger is “that’s all the attention I can give you” or just using silence without calling it out (riskier in a street stop as her momentum might flare up again).

There is a chance that trimming away all of these nice guy behaviors makes you too smooth, or too brutish. That’s probably a good problem to have, I’m not there yet.

By fixing these things and becoming unconsciously competent in them, you are also much less likely to slide back into being a beta if you do get into a relationship. Holding your frame, keeping her on her toes, prevents her from getting bored and keeps the spice going in the relationship and keeps the sexy times rolling.

One other thing that happened as I went through this process of trimming out nice guy behaviors is I became much less tolerable to girls I had been “friends” with. I’ve been friends with a few girls for something like 10 years, they’re too old for me to be interested in dating them. I don’t ask them for advice or even talk much about my life because they get triggered when I talk about dating a girl much younger than them, and if I do anything wrong with regards to seducing a girl and ask for advice (like when I escalated too quickly without pumping the breaks on a nice German girl in July and she promptly left of my apartment) they take the girls side over mine. One of them literally said “you’re an asshole that was just trying to fuck [the German girl]” whereas I had genuinely liked that German girl. Haven’t spoken to that “friend” since. I don’t need that kind of energy in my life. I actually wonder if being friends with girls is just being accepting and tolerant of their bad behavior (most of the time – I am sure there are exceptions, I don’t care to explain further). When I started recognizing it in daygame, I started recognizing it in other areas of my life.

Daygame taught and continues to reinforce all this. Nightgame and online game didn’t. Do daygame. Or don’t. I don’t actually care what you do. No one is coming to save you (my favorite mantra whenever I feel approach anxiety).

Viva daygame.

Yup. Europe is Easier.

Yup. Europe is Easier.

So I did a trip to Europe. Up early due to Jet Lag. Figure I’ll write it up.

Purpose of the trip for me was not actually to get +1s (though I was sure going to try) though I think I could have if I had stayed longer in each city. The purpose of this trip was to gain perspective and to compare New York City to several large European cities and see if New York is actually a more challenging city in which to do Daygame. I haven’t met anyone that can provide actual experience or data – but everyone on twitter seems to have an opinion. I had to figure it out for myself. The European daygamers don’t often come to New York – it’s further away, very expensive, and full of feminists.

I have the means and skills to move to Europe (if you can make it in New York you can make it anywhere), so I took this trip pretty seriously as a survey and scouting mission.

Paris

I started in Paris. Paris is a cheap flight hub from New York. My inbound flight was $150. Bargain.

Immediately I noticed I would get more IOIs than in New York. I was walking around the center of the city, high foot traffic areas. Got a few phone numbers, from a French art student and a Spanish economics student. Some of the girls I stopped turned out to be Russian speaking – but they had boyfriends or husbands, as pretty K-selected girls often do.

I had closed a French girl earlier this year in New York, and she lived in Paris, so I thought I would try to visit her. Of course as soon as I booked my tickets, she told me her boyfriend is moving into her apartment the weekend I would arrive. Hmmpf. We met for coffee during my trip and she told me she hooked up with another guy over the summer and then decided to be exclusive to her boyfriend (!). She dropped some validation lines about how she is super happy to see me and how I make her feel good. This just felt like a line for orbiters or chumps, a verbal tip. I must have given her too much attention. Counterpoint: she was talking to me as a lover – telling me about her provider strategy and asking for advice. This is something I read about in Zan Perrion’s Alabaster girl – girls he was a lover to would often ask for advice about their love life while in bed with him (she and I had talked about her relationship with her boyfriend after the last time we had sex). She’s likely more broken than I had realized, not going to spend more time on her, but to keep open the possibility of player pension dividends, I told her to come have fun with me if this relationship thing she’s trying doesn’t work out. She wanted to meet me at a cafe once more on the morning I was going to leave, and I said I would try if I woke up and then didn’t show – I went to a museum instead and posted an instagram story about it. Felt like the right thing to do.

I had also contacted two leads I met in New York who lived in Paris. One of them was in a different country on business, but was very responsive (despite not hearing from me for 2 months) and wanted to meet the next time I was in Paris. The other lead I had taken on a coffee date in New York before she disappeared. This was a Russian speaking girl. She was surprised to hear from me but very down to come out. Hard frame battle ensued over the course of two drinks, she was telling me some things about how motivated she was to achieve some goals (masculine vibe blah blah blah) and I qualified her on her intensity and found a playful way to make fun of her which she LOVED. She wasn’t clearly accepting my verbal escalation but she wasn’t leaving, and was complying. I went for a kiss about halfway through the second drink, got rejected but held my frame that it was important that I tried and that she knew I tried. We then went for a walk along the river, she told me some things and we started kissing. After a little bit she ran away into an Uber, claiming she had to get up for class in the morning.

The next day I suggested we keep it going, she agreed, I suggested cooking at her place, and she started to get squirrelly after that telling me she had a class project and would let me know if she could make it. I let it go from there.

My airbnb was tiny but in a very central location, I didn’t quite feel confident pulling here there, but I think my peak opportunity to pull was after our first proper kiss along the Seine. That was the right time to try and invite her in.

After 2 days had a few leads and some girls responding over text, but I was only in Paris for a few days, and didn’t have much time to work. Saw one Daygamer on the street – he was a French speaking African and had a backpack on and was approaching posh looking French girls, didn’t seem to have much calibration or luck. I did an approach and he walked by, but I’m not sure he recognized what I was doing.

Warsaw

I arrived in the afternoon, and Thomas Crown was already here. He had told me roughly the area to try day gaming, and so I walked around on my own. We met up later after he had been on a date and did another walk around together. While I was in a shop he opened a girl, she was weird and squirrelly, when I came out of the shop he was just winding it down with her and some polish street promoter started talking to her, so I entered to chat with TC and give some social proof. Well the promoter guy runs off, and TC decides to go into the shop and I continue the conversation with her. She was still squirrelly, not revealing the country where she was from, and somehow TC comes back and invites her into his place, and I eject to go put my shopping in my apartment (which by chance was 2 doors down from TC). He said it didn’t really go anywhere and she was a strange girl. Interesting winging experience my first night. 

I got some IOIs in Poland. Not as many as in Paris. I approached often without getting an IOI. I have been told in the US that I look Polish, so that could also be why I didn’t get as many IOIs, its possible I am not exotic or polarizing enough. The girls were walking slower and would often stop. I did have a girl leave mid set, without saying a word when her friend showed up. That has never happened to me before. My imagined story is that she had a boyfriend and didn’t want the news to get back to him that she was talking to a handsome stranger in the street. Who knows?

The next day, I walked along the main Daygame route and did a few approaches, girls were stopping, we would chat for a few minutes and then inevitably a boyfriend would be mentioned. This was a common pattern – a K-select country. I asked them all how they met – no one met online. Anyway, TC joined later in the afternoon, and one of my first approaches after he joined turned into an instadate. A 24 year old Russian (of course) lawyer that I later found out was a gymnast. I took her for coffee, her English wasn’t that strong so we started to rely on google translate. This was my first real google translate date, ever. As I was talking into the phone with the voice recognition I would stare into her eyes – it seemed to get a good response – she liked the voice and eye contact and the mystery of what I was trying to say which would soon be revealed. I found out she had been on a trip with a guy and broke it off with him in the middle of a trip (a good and bad sign), we then went to a tourist site together (she paid for our tickets), and I got some leading and playful vibes going. She joined me for a drink, and this is where she really started asking me questions about myself. It was going well, then it took a while to pay for the drinks (customer service in Poland, not so good), and I could feel the buying temperature had dropped a little bit. I bounced her to another bar nearby, and the buying temperature dropped more. She asked me how old I was. I didn’t lie. Probably should have. We agreed to meet the next day and she “ran off to meet friends” at 9PM, which I didn’t really believe – it felt like a false curfew. She left my WhatsApp ping the next day unread. In hindsight, I should have tried for a bounce to my apartment for tea as soon as we left the first drink place. TC was inspired by my instadate and went out and got a gutter game close. We got pizza later that night and debriefed. TC is a solid dude. 

Anyway, I did some more approaches the next day, lots of girls with boyfriends. No luck, no numbers. Met up with TC and Mr R (who lives in Poland) and walked around some. 

The next day was my last day (again just in town for a few days), and I was hell bent on making something happen (Never Ever Give Up), and I ended up on an instantdate with a Ukranian girl who was on her way to see the Joker movie. Determined in about 40 minutes that she was a timewaster and she wasn’t accepting any verbal escalation, got a number from a Ukrainian girl claiming to be a model (I made fun of her for that) but couldn’t get her out, and then I met a Polish girl in her 30’s and idated her to a bar nearby (same one I took the Russian to the day before, and the waitress totally recognized me). We ended up kissing in front of my airbnb, but she wouldn’t come in. I walked her to her hotel (to try and get invited in, and it didn’t happen). 

Vienna

The girls in Austria liked me. Quite a few of them commented on being approached (this never happens, thank you for approaching, you’re very brave, Austrian men would never do this). I hit the major shopping and tourist streets for a few days and got some IOIs. I got much better at recognizing IOIs. I was surprised that I would get a lot of IOIs from Russian girls with their families. 95% of the girls stopped in Vienna. The ones that didn’t told me they didn’t speak English. 20% of what I stopped was Russian speaking. Saw no daygamers my entire time there. I got a number from a Hungarian student, a blonde Italian student, an Austrian, (all of whom responded enthusiastically but didn’t come out – this was the first week of school) and went on an idate with another Austrian – she was very compliant and into it (and texted me first) and I think I could have closed if I had a few more days to run game. I met some girls that I probably would have gotten a number from if I were there longer. I met plenty of girls with boyfriends, they were still great to talk to, and none of them met online. I plan to long game the girls I met in Vienna. I doubt it’s a magic place, but part of this Daygame discovery journey is to figure out parts of the world where girls like you and your look. I think Austria might very well be one of those places for me. Cost of living is about half of New York, the marriage laws are favorable to men vs the anglo/commonwealth countries. Central European girls also seem to want to have kids, unlike American women who just want a dog baby.

I also spent a day in Bratislava, Slovakia since it is so close to Vienna, Austria. It was a waste of time. Small city center and a nice shopping mall. The mall was where I had the most luck. Did a few approaches but it didn’t go anywhere.

Conclusions

Paris was comparable to New York in terms of quality – 7’s with some 8’s and 9’s that turned out to be Russian. It was also around the fashion week time, so there were plenty of models running around. Volume was lower though due to lower population density. English levels were higher than I expected. Paris was clean and I felt pretty safe.

Poland average was somewhere between 7 and 7.5. Better than Prague (where in my opinion the average was between 6.75 and 7.25 if we are splitting hairs). Volume was lower and lots of girls had boyfriends (as one would expect of pretty girls in a k-selected country). Prettiest girls I approached in Poland turned out to be Russian or Ukranian. English levels were higher than I expected. Poland was clean, safe, cheap and the busses ran on time.

Austria average was similar to Poland between 7 and 7.5, maybe just a hair lower because I have a slight preference for the slimmer profile of girls of Poland, but I seemed to get a warmer response from Austrian girls and the girls living in Austria, which surprised me. They also seemed more musical and artistic. English levels were very high. Austria was clean and safe and the public transit was great. Architecture is fantastic. This is my favorite city so far.

In all 3 countries I visited this trip (and Prague too from an earlier trip this year) the girls walk slower and stop easier but the population density is lower than Manhattan, and thus the possible approach volume is lower.

Europe *is* easier. Sample size for this trip: 80 approaches, 10 numbers, 5 dates -> 3 bungled pull attempts. I’m still working on my calibration for pulling, and I learned about recognizing the high point of the date and trying to escalate at that point. I know it sounds obvious, but I am having to re-learn and rebuild this part of my game. Losing some hot girls is always a powerful learning experience that gets burned into your memory.

It makes sense that the London Daygame model was invented in Europe, it would have taken significantly more energy to develop it in New York (and Paul Janka is probably the only innovator we really had over here).

I might do another jaunt or two, or I might just up and move to Europe in a few months – I have to see how a few business things shake out.

Frame: Carrot vs. Stick and Active Disinterest

Frame: Carrot vs. Stick and Active Disinterest

Playing to win, instead of playing to not lose, those were some brave words.

It was braver still to act on them. It’s like the tide is going out on your ego and you’re going to see how good you are. I feel pretty naked. The tide is out. By playing to win, instead of playing to not lose, I am currently losing, or at least not winning. But what is daygame if not an exercise in delayed gratification. It would be demoralizing if I couldn’t figure out what to work on next. But I did, and you’re going to read about it.

Krauser talks about this frustration. He calls it out as “not actually doing daygame” but rather “having a nice chat with a stranger.” Yep, that’s what it feels like. Combined with some guys on Twitter telling me what my stats should be (they are likely right, but it’s hard to trust guys on twitter, especially the ones there for marketing purposes). I think this might be a reasonably accurate assessment of where I am in the process. I keep wishing I would figure these things out faster, but one of my favorite quotes from Mystery is that “patterns emerge over time.” Anyway, I have a slightly different conclusion than Krauser about how to break out of the “nice chat with a stranger phase,” and I’ll get to that later.

I’m good at approaching and I like talking to girls, ok, I’m good at having nice chats with girls. I’ve gotten many numbers and dates and even pulled a handful of girls (strongly available maybes and 1 definite yes girl). Many kisses, many near misses. I’m much more confident than I was 3-6-12-24 months ago. This was despite playing to not lose. Roy Walker described me as enthusiastic a few months ago and warned me of a phase most daygamers encounter when it becomes a grind. After the occasional setback, I often think “Ok, maybe I’m at that point now,” but it goes away after a few days and a few good sets.

My main problem right now is my frame. My frame leaks nice guy way too often. Nice guy has been leaking out of me all summer. In case you didn’t know girls in NYC really don’t like nice guys. This has been revealed by letting go of the ego game of playing to not lose and challenging myself to see what happens when I play to win (and I lost a lot more).

I’ve been building a boat to cross the river. An analogy that Nash uses often when we talk. Clearly a manly boat, I’m in shape, successful enough, tall enough, fit enough, leader of men, protector of others, check, check, check, but my frame is wrong. My boat looks pretty good but has an obvious leak and girls don’t want to get into a leaky boat.

Returning to reality from the analogy, here are some examples of what goes wrong:

In my approaches, sometimes my tease hits but then the rest of my conversation turns into an informational chat and becomes nice guy. Mr. V coined something like this “Your conversation with a girl will become as boring as you both can accidentally make it.” If the tease doesn’t hit, it’s usually a good indicator that she’s not in the mood to talk and it’s not going to go anywhere, but when the tease hits and it dies, it’s on me and my frame. I know I can’t get them all, but I can do better and I will.

Also, frequently in approaches and on dates, I give too much value, like something out of Japanese politeness culture or Mr. Rodgers neighborhood: “Oh you’re a singer, that’s cool and you must have a wonderful voice.” It works great for making friends and influencing people. It’s definitely a staple of my management style, and it makes me approachable and works great for leading teams and male and female employees. It just doesn’t work for attracting girls. This is part of the reason that many successful CEOs don’t do well in game. It’s too much carrot and not enough stick. My use of carrots is fine. I need to use more stick. It will probably make me a better leader too.

Instead I need to be more skeptical. It should be “You’re a singer? Oh God (credit Mr. V and hat tip to Mystery)! I hear autotune enables anyone to become a singer these days.” It’s subtle, but this preservation of my relative value in the interaction is probably the biggest missing ingredient of my frame. I just give it away. If I had it, I would unconsciously be more challenging and teasing. Referring to my analogy du jour, my frame just immediately leaks out of the hole in the bottom of my otherwise pretty cool boat.

If you see the girl as a glass that is half full, you’re not protecting the relative value frame and are in danger of slipping into nice guy. Accidentally, the girl is placed on a pedestal. If you see her as a glass that is half empty, the relative frame is skewed correctly, and it is more likely she will work to get you. Hypergamy is a thing. I would like to think I am actually relatively neutral on how I view each girl, part of that is I know I can just meet more, but I think I get skewed a little toward the glass half full perspective and lose my relative value frame because I am curious about them and not challenging enough. Curiosity is killing my pussy cat.

An example of losing the frame on dates: I get a girl out on a coffee date and the chat somehow slips into nice guy because I don’t go in with the correct relative value mindset, no challenge to her, just curiosity. That’s coming in at a disadvantage because of my mental frame. I have been counteracting this by trying to hit Magnum’s 5 points. I have had some success with this – a few dates where I got a girl to my apartment and lost her after kissing. The success so far has been in playing to not lose – I identified when a girl was repeatedly steering away from sexual topics and I decided to cut the date short. Helpful, but not enough. Need more challenge.

Another big thing that Mr.V pointed out to me about my dating conversation skills is getting into conversational quicksand (usually cultural quicksand where we end up talking about cultures too much) because I enjoy the topic. There are a few other topics like this that I have to avoid getting stuck on – I’m sure most guys have a few of these. The frame improvement for me is to say something about it, to show her a taste of my interests and personality and keep the seduction train moving through the station.

It is amused mastery, yet “I am the prize” that is spouted so often on Twitter just isn’t articulate enough. Neither is Lance Mason’s classic take on amused mastery: “everything she does is cute.” I am better than you needs to be subtly and constantly reiterated. Being a challenge. I’m skeptical so you need to work to impress me (which sounds like a mild form of dread game). The best she can do is that’s cute when she tries to fight and you enforce the frame until she submits and complies. Her reality is ridiculous no matter what – like most of us think of our bratty little sisters (if we have them). You reward her for submitting and complying and honoring you and your reality, but you have to maintain that relative value frame.

She needed less carrot and more stick too.

There is an escalation ladder of enforcing frame when a girl does behavior you don’t like (paraphrased from Krauser – source was his blog or one of his books, will update with the source later) followed by an explanation in carrot/stick terms:

  • 1) Ignore (no carrot, no stick)
  • 2) Joke about it (little stick)
  • 3) Call it out (bigger stick)
  • 4) Demote her/Next her (stick, no more carrots)

1 and 4 are passive strategies. They work if she’s attracted and is causing drama and notices you ignore it or step back and she will chase. That is if she is already attracted to you. I am actually pretty good at doing those naturally (withholding carrots), but they are passive and trying to attract a girl by ignoring her is generally a bad plan, and that goes double for NYC where there are so many shiny happy people holding hands.

Recalling the Mystery Method, active disinterest is where attraction is created, and that is essentially 2 and 3. You either tease her (preferable) or put her in her place or even frame crush (provide discipline her like her father should have). She’ll get a defensive tingle from that. This is the challenge aka the stick treatment.

Mystery’s classic example of active disinterest is “You’re French?” “I love French girls, I can’t even talk to you right now. *Back Turn*.”

I have not been consciously doing 2 & 3 and those are absolutely the weakest part of my game. Sometimes I would get lucky and it would work out and I think that’s how I got my dates and lays to this point. Getting lucky. That’s not really game. I should use more active disinterest to generate attraction, in approaches, on dates, all the time. Coupled with more tweaks to improve my overall relative value frame and remove conversational quicksand I expect to see more results. Good thing Mr. V is exceptionally good at teasing. You become an average of the 5 people you hang out with and I am getting better at teasing by hanging out with him.

In the last 6 months, I have definitely been escalating better. It puts a smile of validation on my face when a girl gives me the vibe of “Ooooh, how did we end up kissing like this, he knows how to escalate and I liiike it…” which gets verbalized as “…you move fast (said with a smile between kisses)…” When women describe being swept off their feet, this is what I imagine is happening.

Referring back again to Krauser’s post, he recommends a guy break out of the “friendly chat with strangers phase” by becoming more sexual in set. I agree, it helped when I actively did that a year ago. I regularly do spikes, stepping in, the little toe kick, laser eye contact, etc. But that is not my issue. This is part of the reason I am ending up in the situation with the girl where she is like “how did we end up kissing like this so quickly?” it was a friendly chat that turned sexual as I escalated and she complied and went along with it. She is a little surprised and often smiles as she gets swept off her feet. Hoever (I’m going to leave that typo there), even when it goes well, it is too much pull. Friendly chat + escalation is pull. That’s only half of the push-pull needed for seduction. She should start to feel like chasing me at that point. What is missing is the push, the active disinterest and making her work for it. If she is working for it, then she is not surprised by the escalation, and is a more active participant in the escalation and it proceeds much smoother.

Perhaps Krauser has a more naturally strong frame and so it doesn’t necessarily occur to him as a frequent issue. Or maybe I’ve just been developing in some unusual organic way. I’ve absorbed most of his teachings and gotten some results, but my diagnosis is that my frame (specifically holding my relative value frame and maintaining it by active disinterest) is my sticking point.

I’ve been losing some the past few weeks. It’s OK. One of the good things about solo sports, like… say… running… is that you are competing against yourself and you can train with and against others to motivate yourself to improve. Daygame is also a solo sport, and having a good friend in Nash, and a good wing in Mr. V (and Magnum and LongBurnDaFire) helps me sort through things quicker and bounce back from the daygame lowpoints when we are struggling with our sticking points.

Finally, this Twitter and Blog thing has been helpful for meeting new people. I spotted a guy on the street about a month ago who approached a girl I was about to approach. He did well and got her number. Then about 2 weeks ago, he approached Mr. V after Mr. V approached a girl he was about to go after. He was like “I read some Krauser, and I follow some guys on Twitter, Nash and Runner… …that put a smile on my face.” We’ve been out a few times since then, he has a really good vibe: enthusiastic and reminds me of myself a year ago. I don’t want to out him, but I know he’s reading. Those kind of encounters are the reward of having this blog.

2 years on… …is daygame worth it?

2 years on… …is daygame worth it?

Yes, but not for the reasons you might expect.

Many people have expectations and fantasies even about what daygamers do. Most daygamers, even the advanced ones think they should be doing better than they are.

Originally, I was going to start Daygame in 2013. Nash, who was one of my friends and nightgame wings at the time was like “Oh Shiiiiit! Runner’s serious. He’s going to get good at daygame and leave me in the dust, I better get started…” …and he did. Meanwhile, after ordering Krauser’s books, I got a girlfriend (from okcupid), and was then poached out of that relationship by another girl (from my social circle), and then I broke it off with her and moved to New York and tried Tinder for a few years. It stopped working for me in 2017, I don’t exactly know what changed, but I decided to drop Tinder (I didn’t officially delete it until May 2018, and I closed a few girls off it while starting daygame).

So I started and committed to daygame on August 6th, 2017. I forced myself to go out regularly. Now, 2 years later, I’ve done 2371 approaches as of August 5th 2019, and closed 4 girls. 600 the first year, 1800 the second year. Most of my improvement came in the second year, I just wasn’t approaching enough in my first year.

Here’s some raw data:

The Raw Numbers

I currently have a 10% chance of getting a lead (e.g. a number) from an interaction. 90% of my leads are phone numbers and a few are instagram or facebook. I got one email once from a ballerina who never responded.

Visual representation of how much you should approach.

Note the slope became consistent with more approaches, 5/day on average is what it takes.

First instadate was at 100 approaches, first date + makeout at 250 approaches, first close at 370 approaches, second close at 540 approaches, third at 1110, fourth at 1820. Based on those numbers my expected yield would be somewhere around 1/450 close to open. If those are my stats, I’m overdue for a new +1 anytime now, but I have 2 strong prospects, one of whom is getting back from a 2 week vacation tomorrow (she’s been in touch regularly while on vacation) so I’m pretty optimistic that my stats are consistent.

I was hoping that my yield would be higher, but I am starting to accept that it will get higher over time.

Could I have had a higher yield?

Yes. I don’t need to pad my numbers to sell anything. My sole motivation for doing this is my own satisfaction and achieving my own goals. There are a few girls who wanted it (they were strong maybe or yes girls) and I turned them down because something was off, I didn’t want the risk of dealing with them – sticking your dick in crazy is a little more dangerous in America – litigation and social media #metoo nonsense have caused some girls to miss out on sexy times with me.

I also have had a number of near misses, where I escalated too fast or too slow or made obvious mistakes on the date. These were the tuition of learning calibration. I thought they were sure things, and maybe I fucked it up, or something else derailed the train.

I had to unlearn many bad habits that were taught to me by a previous life in nightgame and the Tinder experience. I do occasionally go on a night out, but it is less than once a month, and lately Mr. V and I have started trying out some areas of Manhattan on Friday or Saturday between 10 PM and 1AM for this thing called gutter game. It’s fun, it’s like we found a new candy store. I should have been doing this earlier, but better late than never.

Daygame in New York is hard. New York city has so many people from so many parts of the world (many of them are even the infamous shithole countries) that it has become a low trust society. Girls assume you are trying to sell them something or worse and will often just have a frame of “I don’t talk to guys on the street.” By being fit and dressing well (meaning stylish, not expensive) and smiling and having a lower voice and a good vibe, you can get them to stop, but that still guarantees nothing…

My yield might also be lower because I approach models and actresses that are running around the city. I feel entitled to it because I have gotten enough numbers and dates with some of them. I have not closed any of the girls of this caliber, but I have come close. It got easier when I stopped caring and pedestalizing them and realized that they are just like other girls. When I approach these types of girls the response is usually very polarized – it’s a low yield but high reward.

Finally, at the risk of sharing what may be a limiting belief or a weasel: One other reason I have considered for my yield being lower is that I have a more introverted personality type, and I’m an intuitive. That’s what’s known as a nerd for those of you who don’t know much about personality types. I can have a good connection with any other personality type, but some are more likely to connect with me than others. I consider psychological chemistry to be similarly important to physical chemistry, and my personality type is rarer and I connect deeper when I do connect, but less frequently. If I had a different personality type, I would either 1) be terrible at daygame or 2) be more successful by a made up estimated factor of 2-5 based on self reported results from twitter guys and have more lays to my daygame career. Maybe that’s bullshit, I’m going to do another year of daygame and I’ll let you know what I think next year.

What have I gained?

In a word: growth.

I’m seasoned now (though I still consider myself an intermediate daygamer). Some days I need a quick warmup to get the social muscles going, other days I just start out hot. Approach anxiety still happens, as does approach apathy, but they are not obstacles or anything that would be considered a problem. I’m more likely to approach girls in my daily life – luck is opportunity meeting preparation, and I am prepared to meet girls when the opportunity presents itself.

In approaching, I do fine alone, it’s more fun with wings and I think I can go longer and it is helpful to have someone spotting IOIs, but it is occasionally a competitive situation between Mr. V and I. I try to let him have the redheads (we call them Wendy’s after the restaurant), unless he’s in another interaction, then I have to approach.

I am internally validated. I’m sure there are some people that are following me on twitter and definitely a few of my friends that know I do daygame who are like “you really talk to 450 girls just to make the sex with one of them?” or recently “that seems like a poor use of time. I can get 4 dates a week on tinder or hinge.” Sure. Good for you. Cool story bro. When Tinder or Hinge or whatever dries up – what will you do then my man?

Internal validation is soooooo gooooood for my vibe. I am happy with the girls I am meeting, and I am enjoying talking to girls, and I am improving and becoming a better man. I feel like a reasonably well-adjusted man most of the time, and some girls have even commented on it. No one can manage my vibe for me, and it’s fully my responsibility to develop and maintain.

I pedestalize girls much less than before. Nash used to say that any time I mentioned I got a number from a model, he knew it was going to be a bad time for me, I had already pedestalized her. Now I don’t seem to care as much and I am mainly looking for signs she is into me.

The biggest improvement I have had to make to my “game” is teasing. Teasing is so fundamental to attraction, and part of the reason my yield was so low to start is that I was too serious and didn’t tease well or enough. I have a feeling Roy Walker and Thomas Crowne probably sensed that about me when they met me (serious and enthusiastic). Mr. V is very good at teasing, and by hanging out with him, I have absorbed much more and easily gotten 100% better in my approaches since I started hanging out with him. It also just makes it more fun. Fun is good for one’s vibe. Teasing is also creative and feels like poetry to me. Many of the great seducers of history were also poets (need a reference to back up this assertion), and I am starting to see the connection. Still working on this.

I can now handle the extreme weather. The extreme NYC summer temperatures of 107F (41C) (it’s been 85-95F (30-35C) for most of July 2019) and winter temperatures of -20 are not a complete impediment, but I have strategies for dealing with them (fashion choices, going indoors, etc.).

I’m better at texting. I write shorter texts with more commanding and leading, my pings are more fun, and I have realized that even if you don’t text perfectly, if she likes you, it doesn’t matter. I have become a daygame stoic, shedding the mystical worship of the daygame gods and the belief in a magic text that will make her like me enough to actually come out on a date. I still wish there was a magic text, but I’ve cured that expectation so I’m more outcome independent and that pays dividends in my day to day vibe. Still constantly improving. Mr. V and I will also sometimes review texts as we are more impartial, and that editing really helps hone what should be sent as a text message and what is better said in person. We do come up with some really funny stuff sometimes that does not end up getting sent. Still working on this.

I’m better at dating. I spend a lot less money (some second dates would cost me $40-$60-$90 and then I would get ghosted), and now I try and kiss girls relatively quickly to determine if they are into me or not. I am wasting a lot less time chasing girls that are “just not that into me” and also filtering out the foxy illegal economic migrants from Eastern Europe who move here looking for an under the table waitressing or nanny job and English lessons (and maybe they are looking for a guy, but somehow I don’t end up being their type or perhaps I’m lost in the r-K-selection wilderness). Still working on this.

On dates where I know she likes me, I can be bolder and more playful and thus be even more attractive and really have a great experience together. It’s rewarding and very seductive to feel powerful on a date. I feel that way much more often now. My logistics are more efficient, so things move faster. Still working on this (noticing the pattern here?).

Conclusion

I’m pleased with my progress so far, and I’m going to stick with it. This next year I aim to get better at approaching in shops and other retail establishments like this guy. I hope my yield goes up, I anticipate that it will, but even if it doesn’t that’s OK. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need. I’m going to keep going. Daygame Stoicism.

My Method for How to Learn Daygame

My Method for How to Learn Daygame

I’m still learning, but I’ve made such progress in the past year and it would be good to share a few thoughts on how to make rapid progress.

Volume is the most important thing. You must approach in volume, and as I said in my last post, an average of 5 approaches a day is about right. It is important to be in a larger city where you can get this kind of volume. In NYC this is no problem – there are enough women here.

First you start approaching, and just get girls to stop and give them a compliment. Even if you did only this, some girls would throw their numbers at you.

However, most of the time you will run out of things to say. You will have to develop a stack of teases and common conversational topics about nothing (weather, fashion, grocery shopping, whatever) and learn how to lead conversations about nothing and turn them into something.

Then you’ll start getting numbers (when you ask for them – took me way too long to be confident to ask for numbers, I know I left many numbers on the table).

With numbers comes the next level of learning to text, and learning to not care about texting. I only recently turned off my read receipts on what’s app and I felt better. Just send it and don’t worry about if the girl read it or not, she will respond if she likes you and won’t if she doesn’t. Knowing that she read it and didn’t respond will just trigger any neuroses you may have. You will develop some gambits and patterns or templates for texting. (Ping, Respond, Amplify, Respond, Seed date request while the phone is in her hand, etc.)

Then a girl shows up on a date. You need a date template to 1) have a plan, 2)lead her along that plan, 3) recognize when things are not going according to plan 4) improvise and try and get things back on track as needed.

A good resource for designing dates and date templates is Tom Torero’s valentines day gift to us. I have also recommended this video to my friends that use Tinder or Bumble to meet girls when they ask me for help with dating.

So after applying volume (5 approaches a day) for a while you will develop templates for the basic steps:

  1. Initially meeting girls and getting their number
  2. Texting girls to get them out on dates
  3. Going on a date with a girl

‘Yes’ girls tend to stick with the plan, that’s compliance and them helping you seduce them. ‘No’ girls deviate very quickly from your plan if they come out at all. ‘Maybe’ girls will turn into no girls unless you do something. Some people think that is game, as Nash says “Does she like you because you’re running good game, or are you running good game because she likes you?

Once you have all these templates and techniques and some practice, it really comes down to leading things toward what you want and connecting with her. Really getting to know her goes well beyond whether or not she is complying (giving you her number when you first meet her, texting you back, coming out on a date, kissing you on the date, etc.) and it’s really enjoyable when you are confident enough in yourself (through experience built upon successful templates honed by volume) to explore another person. Exploring and connecting to someone is independent of relationships, I’m not promoting R or K selection (long-term or short-term mating strategies) here, just selection in general.

It was not straight progress. I would often be stuck for weeks, trying to figure out how to be consistent. Things like not teasing correctly, conversational topics during a daygame approach, texting to get girls out on dates, escalating on dates, picking date venues were stumbling blocks along the way. When I hit a stumbling block then I would reread some or all of Daygame Infinite or Daygame Mastery (the new printing with the tacky cover art) by Krauser – what I was doing wrong was always self-diagnosable with those books. Whatever your problem is, it is very likely in there and if you reread them regularly, even if you aren’t having issues, it will help anywhere along the chain of events from getting her to stop to dominating her in the bedroom. I also watch Tom Torero’s video before dates sometimes to help remind myself about what to do or not do.

And before you ask: No, I’m not going to share my templates – they were built on my personality. Maybe they suck. Develop your own personality.

Approaching 2000 Approaches

Approaching 2000 Approaches

I started doing Daygame seriously in August 2017. Today, I’m at 1956 approaches. I keep an open What’sApp chat with Nash and record almost all of my approaches there. A few times a month I enter the stats in Excel. I consider it an approach if I am able to open my mouth and she hears it, I include all my blowouts, conversations with girls who have boyfriends, leads (phone, instagram, fb, linkedin, business cards, WeChat, line, whatever) etc.

In nearly 2000 approaches, I have gotten 128 leads, and gone on over 50 dates, kissed a few dozen, and seduced 4 wonderful girls – 2 of whom I am in occasional contact with, and one of whom has flown from Europe at her own expense to visit me and is likely to do so again.

Some people may think I’m a bum for only seducing 4 girls after 2000 approaches, and they are welcome to think so. But before you judge me so harshly, have a look at my progression and the lessons learned:

All my approaches. Note there is an uptick in the slope in June 2018 and another in November 2018.

These were numbers and leads, the first year was slow going. I was running out of things to say after approaching, not stacking, ejecting early from sets, suffering from a weaker frame. July 2018 and January 2019 are the major inflection points.

Again, I experienced some beginners luck in Sept 2017, but I was also approaching much lower quantities. July 2018 was where I started to do enough volume.

For the last 4 months, I’ve had about a 10% chance of getting a lead from an approach. I have about a 40% chance of getting a date from a lead. And about a 10% chance of seduction from there. For those who can’t do the math that suggests 0.4% or 4 seductions per 1000 approaches. My real stats are at 4 per 2000. Hmm. First two seductions came at around 370 and 540 approaches, 3rd at 1100 and 4th at around 1800. That 1100-1800 gap was 700 approaches. Did I mention it was winter? Doesn’t matter, I feel like I’m on the cusp of taking off.

So one big observation I want to share is the work rate. How many girls do you need to approach to get better? There are guys out there who say you should just do 1 approach a day. While that’s better than nothing, I don’t think it’s enough. I think the answer is 5, and here is my data to back that up:

There is an inflection point in July 2018, after 11 months, once I started to do over 70 approaches a month (2-3/day on average) and a second inflection point in November 2018 when I started to consistently do 130-150 per month (4-5/day on average).

I feel like I wasted my first year of daygame by not approaching enough. I was dating the two girls I met and seduced – taking a K-selected approach, so that did cut into my approaching. I was also amused that this daygame stuff actually worked, and that I was getting good enough to do it consistently.

Also, around July 2018 I sorted out my fashion. I found some looks that really worked for me, both summer and winter looks. That improved my confidence and the responses and I was energized to approach more. Fitness wasn’t an issue for me and I’m neither tall nor short, but style can always be improved.

Also, since November, I’ve only had 3 consecutive days of not approaching. One was Dec 23-25 and one was when I was visiting a relative who lives in a city where the daygame sucks. Because of this consistency, I really don’t have much approach anxiety and the momentum is just constant.

My prescription for doing daygame and getting decent is going out almost every day and working up to an average of 4-5 approaches per day. I have primarily run daygame in NYC so I can’t comment on if that amount of volume is possible in other cities in the world, but I imagine London, Tokyo and a few others might work.

Also worth mentioning that I met one of my regular wings on the street, he approached a girl I was about to approach, and we became friends and daygame regularly. Nash also introduced me to Magnum and to the world via Anonymous Twitter, which has also provided some interesting contacts including Roy Walker, Thomas Crown, and Mr V. Special thanks to my wings and to Nick Krauser for writing those fantastic books, particularly Daygame Infinite and Daygame Mastery.

Quality

In July 2018 and especially since November 2018, I’ve noticed that I’ve been very happy with the quality of girls I have been meeting and dating: models, actresses, tourists, artists, musicians, dancers, doctors, accountants, students, interns and a few shop girls. I’ve been attracted to all of them and really enjoyed my dates with each one. I have no fear of missing out – the money I spend to live in New York is being well spent.

In February, I began to have problems with too many leads, too many dates to try and schedule at the same time (a problem that continues to this day), and my dates were inconsistent. I talked to Magnum about his two date model and watched a Tom Torero video and those helped streamline some bad habits that had formed from my previous escapades with night game and Tinder ( I deleted Tinder in May 2017 and never looked back). I’ve also been focusing on improving my texting and escalating on dates. It’s working. I expect my yield will go up.

Conclusion

My answer is 5. Do an average of 5 approaches to day to learn this stuff. Your solution might be different. Get out there and approach. Girls like champions, and champions don’t make excuses.