2 years on… …is daygame worth it?
Yes, but not for the reasons you might expect.
Many people have expectations and fantasies even about what daygamers do. Most daygamers, even the advanced ones think they should be doing better than they are.
Originally, I was going to start Daygame in 2013. Nash, who was one of my friends and nightgame wings at the time was like “Oh Shiiiiit! Runner’s serious. He’s going to get good at daygame and leave me in the dust, I better get started…” …and he did. Meanwhile, after ordering Krauser’s books, I got a girlfriend (from okcupid), and was then poached out of that relationship by another girl (from my social circle), and then I broke it off with her and moved to New York and tried Tinder for a few years. It stopped working for me in 2017, I don’t exactly know what changed, but I decided to drop Tinder (I didn’t officially delete it until May 2018, and I closed a few girls off it while starting daygame).
So I started and committed to daygame on August 6th, 2017. I forced myself to go out regularly. Now, 2 years later, I’ve done 2371 approaches as of August 5th 2019, and closed 4 girls. 600 the first year, 1800 the second year. Most of my improvement came in the second year, I just wasn’t approaching enough in my first year.
Here’s some raw data:
I currently have a 10% chance of getting a lead (e.g. a number) from an interaction. 90% of my leads are phone numbers and a few are instagram or facebook. I got one email once from a ballerina who never responded.
Note the slope became consistent with more approaches, 5/day on average is what it takes.
First instadate was at 100 approaches, first date + makeout at 250 approaches, first close at 370 approaches, second close at 540 approaches, third at 1110, fourth at 1820. Based on those numbers my expected yield would be somewhere around 1/450 close to open. If those are my stats, I’m overdue for a new +1 anytime now, but I have 2 strong prospects, one of whom is getting back from a 2 week vacation tomorrow (she’s been in touch regularly while on vacation) so I’m pretty optimistic that my stats are consistent.
I was hoping that my yield would be higher, but I am starting to accept that it will get higher over time.
Could I have had a higher yield?
Yes. I don’t need to pad my numbers to sell anything. My sole motivation for doing this is my own satisfaction and achieving my own goals. There are a few girls who wanted it (they were strong maybe or yes girls) and I turned them down because something was off, I didn’t want the risk of dealing with them – sticking your dick in crazy is a little more dangerous in America – litigation and social media #metoo nonsense have caused some girls to miss out on sexy times with me.
I also have had a number of near misses, where I escalated too fast or too slow or made obvious mistakes on the date. These were the tuition of learning calibration. I thought they were sure things, and maybe I fucked it up, or something else derailed the train.
I had to unlearn many bad habits that were taught to me by a previous life in nightgame and the Tinder experience. I do occasionally go on a night out, but it is less than once a month, and lately Mr. V and I have started trying out some areas of Manhattan on Friday or Saturday between 10 PM and 1AM for this thing called gutter game. It’s fun, it’s like we found a new candy store. I should have been doing this earlier, but better late than never.
Daygame in New York is hard. New York city has so many people from so many parts of the world (many of them are even the infamous shithole countries) that it has become a low trust society. Girls assume you are trying to sell them something or worse and will often just have a frame of “I don’t talk to guys on the street.” By being fit and dressing well (meaning stylish, not expensive) and smiling and having a lower voice and a good vibe, you can get them to stop, but that still guarantees nothing…
My yield might also be lower because I approach models and actresses that are running around the city. I feel entitled to it because I have gotten enough numbers and dates with some of them. I have not closed any of the girls of this caliber, but I have come close. It got easier when I stopped caring and pedestalizing them and realized that they are just like other girls. When I approach these types of girls the response is usually very polarized – it’s a low yield but high reward.
Finally, at the risk of sharing what may be a limiting belief or a weasel: One other reason I have considered for my yield being lower is that I have a more introverted personality type, and I’m an intuitive. That’s what’s known as a nerd for those of you who don’t know much about personality types. I can have a good connection with any other personality type, but some are more likely to connect with me than others. I consider psychological chemistry to be similarly important to physical chemistry, and my personality type is rarer and I connect deeper when I do connect, but less frequently. If I had a different personality type, I would either 1) be terrible at daygame or 2) be more successful by a made up estimated factor of 2-5 based on self reported results from twitter guys and have more lays to my daygame career. Maybe that’s bullshit, I’m going to do another year of daygame and I’ll let you know what I think next year.
What have I gained?
In a word: growth.
I’m seasoned now (though I still consider myself an intermediate daygamer). Some days I need a quick warmup to get the social muscles going, other days I just start out hot. Approach anxiety still happens, as does approach apathy, but they are not obstacles or anything that would be considered a problem. I’m more likely to approach girls in my daily life – luck is opportunity meeting preparation, and I am prepared to meet girls when the opportunity presents itself.
In approaching, I do fine alone, it’s more fun with wings and I think I can go longer and it is helpful to have someone spotting IOIs, but it is occasionally a competitive situation between Mr. V and I. I try to let him have the redheads (we call them Wendy’s after the restaurant), unless he’s in another interaction, then I have to approach.
I am internally validated. I’m sure there are some people that are following me on twitter and definitely a few of my friends that know I do daygame who are like “you really talk to 450 girls just to make the sex with one of them?” or recently “that seems like a poor use of time. I can get 4 dates a week on tinder or hinge.” Sure. Good for you. Cool story bro. When Tinder or Hinge or whatever dries up – what will you do then my man?
Internal validation is soooooo gooooood for my vibe. I am happy with the girls I am meeting, and I am enjoying talking to girls, and I am improving and becoming a better man. I feel like a reasonably well-adjusted man most of the time, and some girls have even commented on it. No one can manage my vibe for me, and it’s fully my responsibility to develop and maintain.
I pedestalize girls much less than before. Nash used to say that any time I mentioned I got a number from a model, he knew it was going to be a bad time for me, I had already pedestalized her. Now I don’t seem to care as much and I am mainly looking for signs she is into me.
The biggest improvement I have had to make to my “game” is teasing. Teasing is so fundamental to attraction, and part of the reason my yield was so low to start is that I was too serious and didn’t tease well or enough. I have a feeling Roy Walker and Thomas Crowne probably sensed that about me when they met me (serious and enthusiastic). Mr. V is very good at teasing, and by hanging out with him, I have absorbed much more and easily gotten 100% better in my approaches since I started hanging out with him. It also just makes it more fun. Fun is good for one’s vibe. Teasing is also creative and feels like poetry to me. Many of the great seducers of history were also poets (need a reference to back up this assertion), and I am starting to see the connection. Still working on this.
I can now handle the extreme weather. The extreme NYC summer temperatures of 107F (41C) (it’s been 85-95F (30-35C) for most of July 2019) and winter temperatures of -20 are not a complete impediment, but I have strategies for dealing with them (fashion choices, going indoors, etc.).
I’m better at texting. I write shorter texts with more commanding and leading, my pings are more fun, and I have realized that even if you don’t text perfectly, if she likes you, it doesn’t matter. I have become a daygame stoic, shedding the mystical worship of the daygame gods and the belief in a magic text that will make her like me enough to actually come out on a date. I still wish there was a magic text, but I’ve cured that expectation so I’m more outcome independent and that pays dividends in my day to day vibe. Still constantly improving. Mr. V and I will also sometimes review texts as we are more impartial, and that editing really helps hone what should be sent as a text message and what is better said in person. We do come up with some really funny stuff sometimes that does not end up getting sent. Still working on this.
I’m better at dating. I spend a lot less money (some second dates would cost me $40-$60-$90 and then I would get ghosted), and now I try and kiss girls relatively quickly to determine if they are into me or not. I am wasting a lot less time chasing girls that are “just not that into me” and also filtering out the foxy illegal economic migrants from Eastern Europe who move here looking for an under the table waitressing or nanny job and English lessons (and maybe they are looking for a guy, but somehow I don’t end up being their type or perhaps I’m lost in the r-K-selection wilderness). Still working on this.
On dates where I know she likes me, I can be bolder and more playful and thus be even more attractive and really have a great experience together. It’s rewarding and very seductive to feel powerful on a date. I feel that way much more often now. My logistics are more efficient, so things move faster. Still working on this (noticing the pattern here?).
I’m pleased with my progress so far, and I’m going to stick with it. This next year I aim to get better at approaching in shops and other retail establishments like this guy. I hope my yield goes up, I anticipate that it will, but even if it doesn’t that’s OK. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need. I’m going to keep going. Daygame Stoicism.